Jan. 22, 2024

Strategies For Growing A Strong Flock, Part 2

Unlock the secrets of poultry perfection with our experts Mandy, John, and Rip as they traverse the complexities of selective breeding and the magic of meticulous record-keeping. Whether you're a seasoned breeder or new to the coop, this week's episode is a treasure trove of insights. We’ll show you how a snapshot can speak a thousand words about lineage and progress, and why a breeder's watchful eye can reveal surprising traits in your feathered charges. Our conversation illuminates the heart of poultry breeding, emphasizing the importance of consistency and the value of personal benchmarks when selecting your ideal breeding stock.

Join us for an enlightening discussion on the hands-on approach to bird evaluation, where their wisdom shines a light on the nuances of assessing poultry. Discover the unexpected revelations that post-processing examinations can uncover, from healed injuries to unforeseen attributes, and learn how these insights inform the journey toward a healthier, more resilient flock. They debate the merits of consistent selection criteria and the strategy of side-by-side comparisons, acknowledging that even among experts, beauty—and breed standards—are often in the eye of the beholder.

Concluding our episode, they delve into the genetic tapestry that forms the backbone of every breeding decision. The fascinating dance of traits as they express themselves requires patience, a critical eye, and sometimes a ruthless culling hand. From the ideal moments to assess specific characteristics to the challenges of breeding for particular colors, we cover it all. Whether you're aiming to produce meat stock or prize-winning show birds, this episode is your guide to navigating the complexities of poultry breeding with grace and knowledge. So, tune in, absorb the wisdom, and remember—every chicken in your coop is a step in your ongoing education as a breeder.

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00:00 - Breeding, Record-Keeping, and Bird Selection

07:40 - Evaluating and Selecting Birds for Breeding

18:11 - Breeding and Evaluating Poultry Genetics

24:59 - Learning the Art of Poultry Breeding

WEBVTT

00:00:00.179 --> 00:00:02.826
Hi, welcome to the poultry keepers podcast.

00:00:02.826 --> 00:00:25.434
I'm Rip Stalvey and, together with Mantle and Royal and John Gunnerman, we're your co-hosts for this show and it's our mission to help you have a happy, healthy and productive flock In the breeding pen.

00:00:25.434 --> 00:00:38.542
I like to use birds that have a problem and make them to birds who meet the standard in that particular area Not exceed the standard or not less than the standard, but meet the standard.

00:00:38.662 --> 00:00:47.756
And then you go through those offspring and you look for the percentage that picked up that one parent that had it pretty close versus taking extremes.

00:00:47.756 --> 00:01:00.610
You'll be lucky to find one that picked up something normal versus the rest of them having one extreme or the other If one parent is doing something correctly.

00:01:00.610 --> 00:01:07.159
That's the sort of pairing you want to do to kind of compensate for any flaws the other part of that breeding equation has.

00:01:08.362 --> 00:01:39.602
I think one thing that this brings to the top of my mind, as we're talking about this, is that the important thing is to keep good records, followed very closely by establishing well, I'm going to get ahead of myself and I don't want to do that, but just keeping good records and going to serve you so very well and Mantle was talking about taking a lot of pictures I don't know how we survived breeding birds before the age of digital cameras and cell phones.

00:01:40.203 --> 00:01:42.509
Everybody had the notebook in their back pocket.

00:01:43.551 --> 00:01:45.724
Blue ribbons on the wall, or the lack of them.

00:01:46.287 --> 00:01:47.653
No, the notebook in the back pocket.

00:01:47.653 --> 00:01:51.064
Famous last words is I don't need to remember that I don't, or yeah?

00:01:51.507 --> 00:01:53.212
I don't need to write that down.

00:01:53.231 --> 00:01:58.426
I'll remember it, especially at my age and picking up a few knocks in the head over my lifetime.

00:01:58.426 --> 00:02:02.646
Write it down, have your bird in your back pocket all the time.

00:02:03.750 --> 00:02:09.286
Well, there's been a couple of times now to where I'll pick a bird up and I'll check over all the details.

00:02:09.286 --> 00:02:15.167
I monitored the growth and this bird just was checking off, box after box after box.

00:02:15.167 --> 00:02:17.860
I'm like, wow, this is probably the best bird I've bred all season.

00:02:17.860 --> 00:02:20.591
I really wish I knew who the parents were.

00:02:20.591 --> 00:02:25.389
Yeah, because then that almost says I don't need to hatch from anybody else other than those two parents.

00:02:26.213 --> 00:02:36.250
Well, it should be as easy as looking at the wing band number or the leg band number and pulling out that notebook I was talking about and going who are you, who is your siren dam?

00:02:36.250 --> 00:02:37.032
Okay, there you go.

00:02:37.615 --> 00:02:41.930
I'm definitely going to start doing that, because I have questions that I can't answer.

00:02:43.114 --> 00:02:46.264
I tried doing it on the computer and I get lost in my own spreadsheets.

00:02:46.264 --> 00:02:48.389
It gets frustrating.

00:02:48.389 --> 00:02:48.590
Now.

00:02:49.772 --> 00:02:53.163
I lose my notebooks, or they get rained on or something goofy.

00:02:53.163 --> 00:02:57.302
So I have to take my notebook and then run them inside and add them to the spreadsheet.

00:02:58.225 --> 00:03:01.299
So I found out in the military, right in the rain, makes a pan and a notebook.

00:03:01.299 --> 00:03:05.390
They were designed for the space shuttle but and I tested it they will write upside down.

00:03:05.390 --> 00:03:09.556
Underwater scuba gear costs a little bit more going in but they never get destroyed.

00:03:09.556 --> 00:03:12.502
Even a puppy chewing on it will not hurt it, at least.

00:03:13.604 --> 00:03:22.425
What about the need to establish a good, sound, strong reader selection program and a management program?

00:03:22.425 --> 00:03:24.390
What's your thoughts on that, john?

00:03:25.474 --> 00:03:43.705
Well, I do that every fall and that's when I start getting panicky is when I'm choosing which two or three roosters and which I want to carry over ideally 16 birds going into the winter, because we do have a and it's somewhat expected loss Every year.

00:03:43.705 --> 00:03:49.807
I get attacked by ermine when it gets warm and rainy in the spring and then that always sets a panic.

00:03:49.807 --> 00:03:52.413
But I do keep two weeks worth of eggs in reserve.

00:03:52.413 --> 00:03:58.872
If I do lose a rooster, at least I know I've got, as genetics is back up somewhere in there.

00:03:58.872 --> 00:04:02.085
But yeah, the king, the heir, the spare.

00:04:02.085 --> 00:04:08.324
I'm going for the three clan spiral rotation and that's what I do.

00:04:08.324 --> 00:04:14.086
But if I find somebody where I really want this hand and this rooster, I mean they're just the best ever.

00:04:14.086 --> 00:04:16.536
If they're in different clans, so be it.

00:04:16.536 --> 00:04:24.064
I just made a fourth clan, if that's what we did, and just increased my record keeping a little bit, and drop another clan off if it turns out successful.

00:04:25.168 --> 00:04:33.588
Yeah, I'm constantly filtering the birds and I don't think there's any such thing as too late to call.

00:04:33.588 --> 00:04:39.488
Sometimes I'm getting birds that are a year, year and a half, two, three, four, five years old.

00:04:39.488 --> 00:04:40.954
That I mean.

00:04:40.954 --> 00:04:43.483
The cook method changes for sure with the age.

00:04:43.843 --> 00:04:50.264
Handling the bird and I put them in the cone and I was like, wow, it won't go down because he's just so wide in the shoulders.

00:04:50.264 --> 00:04:55.060
And I saw the spread in the back and I went nope, you lived.

00:04:55.060 --> 00:05:00.858
I mean, the structure that was hiding, it was supposed to be a meat bird, somehow.

00:05:00.858 --> 00:05:03.947
It was just hiding and it was there and I was able to save him at the last minute.

00:05:05.057 --> 00:05:22.452
I think Mandy just shared a quote with folks and I want to reiterate what she said because it's that important your hands will tell you a lot about your business Once you know what you're feeling for and you feel it on a bird that you hadn't really looked too much at.

00:05:22.574 --> 00:05:30.829
as far as, like when you're reviewing pens, you can find one, two, three favorites by comparing the visuals to each other.

00:05:31.235 --> 00:05:47.629
But when you get your hands on them I've had birds surprised me before and, like there was a male, I had left him in RoosterCoop and that's where I'll grow out like 25 boys at a time and something had spooked him and I was finding birds in places they shouldn't have been.

00:05:47.629 --> 00:05:49.216
I saw this one male.

00:05:49.216 --> 00:05:54.627
He was the leader of the group and he had been reprieved the time before because I couldn't catch him.

00:05:54.627 --> 00:06:01.095
And then I put the next batch of boys in and he decided he was going to take care of them and be the leader.

00:06:01.095 --> 00:06:08.095
So I found him over in a pig pen next door and I cornered him and I was able to catch him that time.

00:06:08.095 --> 00:06:16.363
And when I put my hands on him and picked him up he was so fleshy and meaty and well rounded in the carcass Like he felt incredible.

00:06:16.363 --> 00:06:26.283
So instead of putting him back in the RoosterCoop, I took him up to the barn and put him in his own pen to save for later and we're always on the lookout for that one in a hundred bird.

00:06:28.521 --> 00:06:33.882
You touched on something and it just brought me back to boot camp in the Navy with my chief saying I'm a filter, not a pump.

00:06:33.882 --> 00:06:39.507
But that mindset and that adage is so spot on.

00:06:39.507 --> 00:06:43.062
I think that's what we're constantly doing.

00:06:43.062 --> 00:06:50.247
Yeah, we're setting a lot of eggs, but our whole goal is to filter down and just find the best ones to carry the best genetics forward.

00:06:51.355 --> 00:06:59.927
Yeah, because one of the worst things you can do is try to push for quantity, but they run out of space and overcrowd them because that's going to limit their growth.

00:06:59.927 --> 00:07:06.021
It's going to potentially give you some health issues, especially if the ammonia load gets too heavy.

00:07:06.021 --> 00:07:06.822
That'll affect that.

00:07:06.822 --> 00:07:15.185
It was Jeff's book that said if you can smell the ammonia it's already 10 times too high for the birds themselves.

00:07:17.036 --> 00:07:21.406
Make sure you've got a grown out space and a plan for every egg that you set.

00:07:21.406 --> 00:07:24.841
Yeah, If you can't get rid of it, what are you going to do with that?

00:07:24.841 --> 00:07:27.944
Because I think you're responsible for the life that you bring in.

00:07:27.944 --> 00:07:34.107
Even though it is just a bird, you have a level of responsibility to treat it ethically and humanely.

00:07:35.214 --> 00:07:37.603
Well, I'm going to give them the chance to reach their potential too.

00:07:38.396 --> 00:07:39.439
So stick to your goals.

00:07:39.439 --> 00:07:56.095
The important thing is and this is kind of how I found you initially, mandy was you're picking up and reviewing your birds, the videos that you put online of evaluating your birds, how you recommend people use your hand as the measuring gauge.

00:07:56.095 --> 00:08:04.074
It doesn't matter what size your hand is, because you're measuring the birds in your flock and selecting from within the ones that meet your goals.

00:08:04.738 --> 00:08:07.095
Yeah, it's definitely peer against peer within your own flock.

00:08:07.095 --> 00:08:09.095
You're not comparing to anybody else's.

00:08:09.095 --> 00:08:31.095
So use your own hands on your own birds and figure out what you're feeling After processing is a good time to handle them some more too, to get familiar with what they feel like, so you can kind of transfer that knowledge to what it feels like when they still have their feathers on, so that then you can recognize those birds before it's too late.

00:08:31.095 --> 00:08:42.529
There's been a couple of times where we would get in the groove of processing and my husband would snatch them and go ahead and do the deed and then I ended up with the carcass and I'm like whoa, whoa, whoa.

00:08:42.529 --> 00:08:44.095
This one's really nice.

00:08:44.375 --> 00:08:49.784
I actually like being I've had birds come out of the oven room like, damn, how'd you get in there?

00:08:50.856 --> 00:08:58.764
And then I remind myself that probably had funky wings or a goofy tail set, or there is something visual that I didn't care for.

00:08:59.254 --> 00:09:03.086
Oh, I found broken legs that have healed in my chicken casserole.

00:09:03.086 --> 00:09:06.985
When you get down to the drumstick and you're like, oh, I remember this bird.

00:09:06.985 --> 00:09:09.663
Yeah, you broke its leg doing this when it was a chick.

00:09:09.663 --> 00:09:13.261
Yeah, rough handling sometimes birds get broken.

00:09:13.261 --> 00:09:15.326
But I still have this compulsion.

00:09:15.326 --> 00:09:19.095
If it's not a genetic defect, then it's not going to make them suffer the rest of their life.

00:09:19.095 --> 00:09:20.782
I'll carry them through.

00:09:20.782 --> 00:09:23.095
They still get the best life I can give them.

00:09:23.095 --> 00:09:25.095
I'm a softy like that.

00:09:25.476 --> 00:09:34.054
Do you feel like it's important to be consistent from year to year to year in how we do our selection of birds?

00:09:34.054 --> 00:09:37.263
I mean, should we use the same methods?

00:09:37.263 --> 00:09:39.410
Should we bury him?

00:09:40.567 --> 00:09:41.169
Pens.

00:09:41.169 --> 00:09:45.975
The FLOG goals will help you figure out what methods you need to be using.

00:09:45.975 --> 00:09:52.498
For me personally, I have a top five treat that needs to be there in any bird that I carry forward.

00:09:52.498 --> 00:10:07.898
So that's their fleshing, their bone spacing and structure, the health and vigor, some things that are just like a non-negotiable list, and after that what I'm looking for changes based on what I'm seeing I need to improve.

00:10:07.898 --> 00:10:20.837
So I'm not really looking at tail angles on every single bird because I have a pen for that, for that treat, and because I have the luxury of pen space and I can organize them.

00:10:20.837 --> 00:10:29.894
I can pick off five or six traits I want to work on and do that within certain pens and I have a lot of flexibility there from one season to the next.

00:10:29.894 --> 00:10:33.715
I just don't step away from my top five needed traits.

00:10:33.715 --> 00:10:40.496
Those core things have to be there and everything else is bonus and subjective and varies season to season.

00:10:41.647 --> 00:10:46.432
The baseline I consider Good enough to move forward, and then incremental improvements.

00:10:47.274 --> 00:11:01.111
Yeah, and then use the compensation mating and finding out who they throw the best results with and figuring out what pen they really belong in by the time they're two, and if they're still here when they're two, then I'm going to hatch everything that bird lays, because those are the best of the best of the best.

00:11:02.445 --> 00:11:17.528
One thing that I found worked really well for me is that when I evaluate a bird using my hands, I typically follow the same procedure one bird to the next I pick up a bird.

00:11:17.528 --> 00:11:22.794
When I'm picking up that bird, I'm already measuring the length of the keel using the palm of my hand and my middle finger.

00:11:22.794 --> 00:11:29.774
I can also evaluate the basic flushing qualities of that bird.

00:11:29.774 --> 00:11:35.673
By just applying a little pressure from the side, I'll fold out the same wings.

00:11:35.673 --> 00:11:40.126
It's rare that I fold out the bird's left wing first and then go over and look at the right wing.

00:11:40.126 --> 00:11:43.490
Then I move on to back width.

00:11:43.784 --> 00:11:45.991
Well, you have that show judge experience too.

00:11:46.845 --> 00:11:49.272
But I was doing that way before I started judging.

00:11:50.445 --> 00:11:57.714
So you found your groove before that on what you were looking for and you had a systematic approach to how you handled them.

00:11:57.714 --> 00:12:01.110
I guess that would help the birds come up with expectations of when they get caught.

00:12:05.345 --> 00:12:12.658
One thing that I found it did for me was I was able to more consistently evaluate birds.

00:12:12.658 --> 00:12:21.027
It was easier for me to say is bird A better than bird B, or is it bird B better than bird C?

00:12:21.027 --> 00:12:27.357
It was a familiar process that I found myself getting into that served me well over the years, still does.

00:12:28.125 --> 00:12:39.557
One thing I had in a couple of years ago that has been absolutely invaluable was a viewing area, and I'm going to expand it because right now I can look at three birds next to each other at a time.

00:12:39.725 --> 00:12:58.659
They're on a table, front and center, right in front of me, so I can see them in that visual, side by side, but they're also already caught in a cage so I can handle this one and then that one and then go back to the other one and then check the other guy, put them all back, step back, stare at them for a couple of minutes.

00:12:58.659 --> 00:13:24.855
And I can because I still have some clutter in my brain on what exactly I'm looking for on any given season, and finding who the best is out of a group is tricky and subjective, because if you put 10 breeders in a room with 20 birds and you told each of those breeders pick the best three out of these birds, you might get totally different.

00:13:24.855 --> 00:13:34.590
They're all going to have their own things that they're looking for and having the same breeder pick the same three birds as the next breeder I mean that's almost impossible, I think.

00:13:36.845 --> 00:13:37.929
Almost impossible with judges.

00:13:39.107 --> 00:13:47.274
Yeah, I can only imagine how cutthroat and subjective it gets on Champion Row, even when they have to bring in multiple judges to kind of figure out.

00:13:48.404 --> 00:13:50.191
It's not so much that it's cutthroat.

00:13:50.191 --> 00:13:53.081
Is that we each like it or not?

00:13:53.081 --> 00:13:57.232
We have our own way of interpreting the standard and applying the standard.

00:13:57.232 --> 00:14:00.729
And again, we're going to get into that next week's y'all, so don't miss that show.

00:14:00.729 --> 00:14:04.657
But it's just the difference between people.

00:14:04.657 --> 00:14:06.750
It's really what it all warms down to.

00:14:07.927 --> 00:14:10.073
Yeah, like I'll have sometimes.

00:14:10.796 --> 00:14:21.543
I'll have a friend over and she raises the same variety I do, so we'll put some birds up in the cage and we'll both stand back and talk about them and discuss them, and she'll go well, I really like the comb on that one.

00:14:21.543 --> 00:14:30.373
That's something that I need to see in my flock and I'm like, yeah, the comb's nice, but look at the chest and then you have to decide well, is the chest more important than the comb?

00:14:30.373 --> 00:14:32.546
Well, absolutely so.

00:14:32.546 --> 00:14:33.128
Like.

00:14:33.128 --> 00:14:39.811
One thing I've been looking at the last several years is chest depth, and that is hard to improve.

00:14:39.811 --> 00:14:47.798
That's going to take me a while to just inch that chest down to what the standard wants.

00:14:48.706 --> 00:14:50.490
I am going to need five or ten years for that.

00:14:52.184 --> 00:15:01.549
One thing that we've been talking about selection and finding the better birds in the flock and something we'll get into again next week.

00:15:01.549 --> 00:15:15.936
But you know, the longer you tolerate a defect in your flock, the longer you're going to have it and the harder it becomes to get rid of you perpetuate what you tolerate Call, call, call.

00:15:17.326 --> 00:15:29.865
I didn't get to be ruthless until probably about five years ago, where I started like, especially when I was seeing pale light color or At the time I was battling the slip wing too.

00:15:29.865 --> 00:15:41.456
So I had to just take a very no-nonsense approach to that and not be generous on females that were trying to hide a Poor wing, because if they hit it from me then I kind of pretended like I didn't see it.

00:15:41.456 --> 00:15:53.620
But then I started seeing it in the offspring and I was like man, I'm really gonna have to get in here and nitpick and really ruthlessly go through them if I'm Gonna ever stop seeing this and I did cleaned it up pretty quick though, didn't it?

00:15:54.403 --> 00:16:03.409
Oh yeah, one season of ruthless selection will straighten out a lot, unless it's something recessive that you have to track parentage to find it's real important again.

00:16:03.409 --> 00:16:16.998
But you might have two birds, the male and the female, and they visually check out, they pass the hand, feel they look like really good examples, but then, when you breed them together, you see something unexpected.

00:16:17.664 --> 00:16:27.793
Sometimes there's recessive traits and there's polygenetic traits that require just all sorts of crazy factors to express Well let's not use the factor there.

00:16:28.706 --> 00:16:40.075
You have to let the percentage of expression let you know how Big of a problem it is like if it doesn't exceed, like three percent or whatever percentage you want to come up with.

00:16:40.075 --> 00:16:43.934
Less than five percent it's probably not that big of a deal but it might be later.

00:16:43.934 --> 00:16:51.684
So tracking parentage again, in case you need to backtrack back to grandparents to get to the bottom of stuff that pops out later.

00:16:51.845 --> 00:17:01.254
Sure, Well, luckily there's no set processing time on the heritage breeds and, as we've discussed, the only really changes is the cooking method.

00:17:01.254 --> 00:17:12.915
If you have to reach back to get rid of something, you still can make cocoa van or, you know, chicken fricassee If you have good records and can reach back and find it and root it out.

00:17:14.125 --> 00:17:17.432
One question I get asked a lot is when you're evaluating birds.

00:17:17.432 --> 00:17:19.979
What age do you evaluate your birds?

00:17:19.979 --> 00:17:21.048
They don't know.

00:17:21.048 --> 00:17:24.332
Continuous can vary from breed to breed.

00:17:24.332 --> 00:17:27.470
It can vary from variety within that breed.

00:17:27.470 --> 00:17:31.510
It can vary from different strains of the same breed and variety.

00:17:31.651 --> 00:17:46.888
I take each hatch as a cohort started value hat Go for the center of the hatch window is my ideal Because I want heterogeneity among my flock, so the first out and last out are almost always disqualified For some reason anyways.

00:17:46.888 --> 00:17:53.173
So I've learned not to even pay attention to them unless there's a rock star that shows up, but that's very rare.

00:17:53.173 --> 00:17:56.884
But the first three weeks can tell you a lot daily weights.

00:17:56.884 --> 00:18:10.613
If you can mark your birds and weigh them daily, the information that is locked in those first three weeks Can serve you to map out the rest of the birds potential life if they're Cared for and fed and watered correctly.

00:18:11.605 --> 00:18:14.613
When it goes a long way in helping you learn your genetics too.

00:18:14.613 --> 00:18:32.565
I found that, even looking at it, from when to call for what traits, I don't really look at wings until after they've done a couple of molts and we're coming up closer to like four and a half, five, six months old, because some of mine will grow so fast.

00:18:32.565 --> 00:18:39.347
The wings get funky because of that, but then they're just fine later, after they finished grew and they look great.

00:18:40.565 --> 00:18:53.438
But something I've noticed having larger hatches helps, because if you're comparing 12 birds amongst each other, it's a lot harder to see inconsistencies as if you are comparing 50 birds amongst each other.

00:18:54.345 --> 00:18:56.853
Having a larger sample set and we talked about this earlier.

00:18:56.853 --> 00:19:07.398
Having a larger sample set, you, with the leg color, you can see who's really dark and who's really light Within the first couple weeks, probably right Already, start being making these selections in your head.

00:19:07.398 --> 00:19:07.882
Nope, you're out.

00:19:07.882 --> 00:19:08.384
You're out, you're out.

00:19:08.384 --> 00:19:09.471
You're going to the meat pen.

00:19:09.471 --> 00:19:11.060
You're going to the meat pen, you're going to the meat pen.

00:19:11.060 --> 00:19:11.664
You can stay.

00:19:11.664 --> 00:19:14.961
You can get the good nutrition that costs a little more maybe.

00:19:16.346 --> 00:19:48.891
One thing that I'm going to throw out here about when to do the selection that is fairly consistent is if you're breeding party colored birds P-A-R-T-I, that's birds of more than one color, Pattern birds or in the case of reds, it's red bodies, black tails but when you're breeding those party colored birds, the best time to evaluate for color is wait until they have molded in their last adult primary, when all those primary feathers are in.

00:19:48.891 --> 00:19:53.138
You can rest assured that the color you see is the color you have to work with.

00:19:53.138 --> 00:19:54.897
What age is that?

00:19:54.897 --> 00:20:07.221
Usually it depends, you know, in my reds, my females anywhere from 67 months old, males maybe, oh, a month or so later.

00:20:08.346 --> 00:20:24.217
For mine with the white breast, we have to watch out for yellowing and it can go all the way until a year and a half before they'll do a little color change on me and I have to wait for a molt and see what color the new feathers come back in, because sometimes the new feathers are yellow and not white.

00:20:26.905 --> 00:20:32.856
You can feed a bird for a long time and hope it makes it through that last toll gate.

00:20:32.856 --> 00:20:33.038
Huh.

00:20:34.145 --> 00:20:36.048
Well, and then even something like combs.

00:20:36.048 --> 00:20:45.522
You don't want to even think about comb size when they're six months old, because that thing is going to keep on changing all the way up to almost two years old.

00:20:46.084 --> 00:20:46.565
Absolutely.

00:20:47.066 --> 00:20:54.038
It might dip over at a year old, and if you've already hatched a bunch from them, you're going to see a bit more of that.

00:20:55.105 --> 00:21:09.398
And sometimes I get concerned about what I'm telling people will lead them to believe flock improvement is a fast process and I've tried to stress it several times in our episode today that it's going to take some time.

00:21:09.398 --> 00:21:12.909
Breeding poultry is not a destination.

00:21:12.909 --> 00:21:20.759
Breeding poultry is a journey because no matter how far you get down the road, you're around a corner and oh, there's some more road I need to go down.

00:21:21.986 --> 00:21:22.627
There's a hazard.

00:21:23.830 --> 00:21:36.339
Turn left, turn right these topics back in science class that you thought had no relevance in your life, like punnett squares and laws of segregation and inheritance, all of a sudden became really important.

00:21:37.125 --> 00:21:45.585
Well, I just hit a fork in the road by getting two completely different body structures out of my flock and I'm going to have to decide which one or if it's possible to blend them together.

00:21:45.585 --> 00:21:51.565
I favor blending them together to find the balance of both of those, but I might have to choose.

00:21:51.565 --> 00:22:00.384
So I'm going to hatch and see and come up with a new plan to aim back at consistency, because I hatched myself into so many variables.

00:22:00.464 --> 00:22:02.930
now, speaking, of choosing Mandy.

00:22:02.930 --> 00:22:06.176
I'll be more than happy to ship you my dartboard if you'd like that.

00:22:07.349 --> 00:22:08.416
I was going to lie in my hands.

00:22:08.416 --> 00:22:09.585
Tell me which ones are better for the table.

00:22:10.587 --> 00:22:14.561
Ultimately, people who raise chicken eat a lot of chicken.

00:22:14.721 --> 00:22:15.565
The better breeders do anyway.

00:22:16.546 --> 00:22:18.449
You eat your mistakes and that's one way.

00:22:18.449 --> 00:22:26.420
Taking apart a chicken really helps you learn what went into making that chicken and what goes into making a good chicken and what doesn't.

00:22:26.420 --> 00:22:33.637
When you start looking at heart girth, chest capacity, body depth from the inside, it's enlightening.

00:22:34.704 --> 00:22:46.585
Well, not only does it feed you and teach you, but it also goes a long way in helping to protect your reputation too, because any bird you let go of is going to be a reflection on to you and your program and your practice.

00:22:47.066 --> 00:22:58.199
Like it or not, man processing birds is one of the best ways I know of to really have a good understanding and a good handle on.

00:22:58.199 --> 00:23:00.082
What is body capacity?

00:23:00.082 --> 00:23:01.884
What's it supposed to look like?

00:23:01.884 --> 00:23:02.585
What shouldn't it look like?

00:23:02.925 --> 00:23:08.642
Those narrow birds, the ones that have to get culled, are the worst to process, because eviscerating them just cuts you to shreds.

00:23:09.364 --> 00:23:09.585
Absolutely.

00:23:09.585 --> 00:23:14.557
That's why I asked for your advice on kitchen shears for cutting spines out for spatch cocking.

00:23:14.625 --> 00:23:20.017
Yeah, just crack that thing open like this and put it on a grill with a rick wrapped in aluminum foil on it.

00:23:21.086 --> 00:23:23.030
That's the best way to do those little birds.

00:23:23.030 --> 00:23:24.855
Just go ahead and cut the spine out.

00:23:25.625 --> 00:23:36.585
Yeah, you know they were raised in good conditions and they probably don't have all the bad things that are associated with chickens, but still, let's not get our hands cut up trying to stuff them into a tiny little bird cavity.

00:23:36.766 --> 00:23:40.567
Yeah, agreed, folks, this has been a really good show.

00:23:40.567 --> 00:23:50.278
I think we've covered a lot of territory, but I want to ask my co-host here what is one thing you hope people can take away from what we had to share with them today?

00:23:50.278 --> 00:23:52.161
What's a big benefit that they can get?

00:23:53.205 --> 00:23:59.017
To be patient and tolerant, but also ruthless on calling it's a weird balancing act.

00:23:59.017 --> 00:24:00.318
You'll have to figure it out as you go.

00:24:01.506 --> 00:24:18.053
I would say the most important thing is doing your due diligence to find the breed that suits your environment and then finding a breeder who's raised that breed in a similar environment, as similar goals as you, and start with that as a base.

00:24:19.286 --> 00:24:20.789
I like what both of y'all said.

00:24:20.789 --> 00:24:27.346
I'm just going to add to that Breeding is an art, it is a science.

00:24:27.346 --> 00:24:41.144
It is guesswork sometimes, but if you keep good records, if you evaluate your birds, if you reflect on your flock progress, you will do well, that's fair and it's doable at any size too.

00:24:41.223 --> 00:24:45.113
I could do it with 12 to 16 birds, and Mandy can do it with hundreds.

00:24:45.113 --> 00:24:47.465
How many birds do you have now?

00:24:47.619 --> 00:24:50.984
I'm gonna get more efficient in time I'll get there.

00:24:50.984 --> 00:24:52.351
I'm still on my journey.

00:24:52.351 --> 00:24:54.400
I haven't even gotten there yet.

00:24:54.400 --> 00:24:56.567
Oh man, what a mess.

00:24:56.567 --> 00:24:57.310
But it's fun.

00:24:57.310 --> 00:24:58.394
I'm learning so much.

00:24:58.394 --> 00:24:59.579
I love these birds.

00:24:59.579 --> 00:25:04.132
They do all the chicken things and then teach you more than you ever wanted to know about chicken.

00:25:04.901 --> 00:25:18.453
That's the one thing I love about poultry breeding is it is a journey you never do get to the end of your journey and it forces you to learn, expand your knowledge base, expand your management style.

00:25:18.453 --> 00:25:27.099
My mentor told me on more than one occasion if you're going to breed better birds, you better learn new things.

00:25:28.363 --> 00:25:40.153
Oh yeah, be spongy, be open-minded, don't be too hard on yourself, try to have realistic goals and don't try to do everything once in a season, because you can't and you won't and you're just gonna end up frustrated.

00:25:41.221 --> 00:25:53.672
Well, why don't we just end it here, and we will see you guys next week when we talk about how to read, interpret and apply the written standard.

00:25:53.672 --> 00:26:02.708
Thank you for joining us this week and, before you go, make sure you subscribe to our podcast so you can receive new episodes right when they're released every Tuesday.

00:26:02.708 --> 00:26:12.818
And if you're enjoying this podcast, we'd like to ask you to drop us an email at poultrykeeperspodcastcom at gmailcom, and share your thoughts about the show.

00:26:12.818 --> 00:26:16.660
Thank you again for joining us for this episode of the poultry keepers podcast.

00:26:16.660 --> 00:26:18.467
We'll see you next week.