March 31, 2025

Practical Poultry Genetics-Part 2

Show Notes
Transcript

In this episode of the Poultry Keepers podcast, hosts Mandelyn, John, and Rip discuss the importance of genetic knowledge for backyard poultry keepers. They explain key genetic concepts like genotype versus phenotype, dominant versus recessive traits, and test mating.

The hosts delve into practical applications, such as identifying faults, selecting quality birds, and ensuring strong structure and even growth. They also highlight the challenges of breeding, the importance of record-keeping, and how to prevent unwanted traits.

The episode underscores the significance of observing birds closely, maintaining genetic consistency, and learning from breeding experiences.

#PoultryGenetics #BreedingBetterBirds #PoultryBreeding #FlockDevelopment #SelectiveBreeding #RecessiveTraits #GeneticConsistency #BloodlinePreservation
#PoultryEducation #FarmToFlock #HomesteadPoultry #ChickensWithPurpose
#HandsOnGenetics

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WEBVTT

00:00:00.040 --> 00:00:03.589
Hey folks, and welcome to another episode of the Poultry Keepers podcast.

00:00:04.099 --> 00:00:05.139
I have a question for you.

00:00:05.519 --> 00:00:09.609
How much do backyard poultry keepers really need to know about genetics?

00:00:10.199 --> 00:00:13.800
In this episode, Mandelyn, John, and Rip break down the basics.

00:00:14.349 --> 00:00:18.190
Like what is genotype versus phenotype, dominant versus recessive?

00:00:18.559 --> 00:00:19.550
What is test mating?

00:00:20.030 --> 00:00:22.670
How to identify faults and disqualifications.

00:00:22.670 --> 00:00:28.660
You'll learn how to apply practical genetics to improve your flock and select quality birds.

00:00:38.847 --> 00:00:39.686
Oh, I bet it is.

00:00:39.686 --> 00:00:40.976
That's why my birds are white.

00:00:41.381 --> 00:00:42.237
White also.

00:00:42.597 --> 00:00:43.856
Yeah, but you got this too.

00:00:44.756 --> 00:00:45.417
We're working on that.

00:00:45.417 --> 00:00:45.476
So

00:00:45.476 --> 00:00:46.317
easier than lacing,

00:00:46.406 --> 00:00:51.627
and I didn't mean that der, but there's trade offs no matter what we do.

00:00:52.286 --> 00:00:52.436
Yeah.

00:00:52.436 --> 00:00:53.156
No matter what

00:00:53.246 --> 00:00:53.487
I mean.

00:00:53.487 --> 00:01:00.116
There's just staining from their chest feathers dragging on their feet in water dish.

00:01:01.017 --> 00:01:01.167
Yeah.

00:01:02.061 --> 00:01:03.536
Man, my birds look a mess.

00:01:04.436 --> 00:01:05.637
It is mud season

00:01:06.296 --> 00:01:09.266
Uhhuh, unless you're still frozen up there in Vermont.

00:01:10.066 --> 00:01:11.206
It depends on where you measure.

00:01:11.206 --> 00:01:16.126
Right now we got snow everywhere except for the road surfaces, which are mud.

00:01:16.216 --> 00:01:16.697
Yes.

00:01:17.596 --> 00:01:21.977
Let's talk about what makes a good quality bird.

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What goes into that?

00:01:24.287 --> 00:01:24.826
Strong

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structure, even growth, not too fast, not too slow,

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I've gotta default to the standard of perfection.

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What was the bird designed to do?

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What was its structure intended to be, and does it match that Still?

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In the long run.

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It comes down to balancing genetics with practical selections because, and that's why getting some of these things are corrected.

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It's so difficult because you're selecting for one particular quality, but the genetics are just not there in that bird to make it happen.

00:02:07.918 --> 00:02:15.812
To bring it about and that's, breeding poultry is not for the faint of heart because it, it drive you nuts.

00:02:16.712 --> 00:02:16.953
No,

00:02:17.853 --> 00:02:18.032
yeah.

00:02:18.032 --> 00:02:20.492
You can't rush it, and you almost have to have a.

00:02:20.777 --> 00:02:25.818
Methodical approach to keeping within your flock goals.

00:02:25.897 --> 00:02:27.698
And always putting the bird first.

00:02:28.538 --> 00:02:28.777
Yeah.

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And impeccable record keeping.

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You start seeing things pop up and you're going, Hey, I'm seeing this come, from only here.

00:02:36.078 --> 00:02:41.598
You can look at your records and go, okay, that was this cross and that was this cross to get to there.

00:02:41.598 --> 00:02:44.448
And then you can start backtracking and it.

00:02:45.018 --> 00:02:55.677
It can be frustrating sometimes to put a year or two into breeding in the wrong direction, but hopefully you have a couple of different lines or families or clans or whatever you wanna call them.

00:02:55.677 --> 00:03:00.177
So if that happens, you can always do a little reset and flush it out.

00:03:01.078 --> 00:03:12.777
And it's important to know also that it may take every bit of three generations or even five generations before any potential problems might be found.

00:03:13.242 --> 00:03:30.002
And I see a lot of people who source their birds and they bring them in from 2, 3, 4 different breeders and they build their flock from several different bloodlines and then they're immediately selling from those cross bloodlines that very next season.

00:03:30.393 --> 00:03:37.323
And then the people who got those birds breed them and they're waiting into that third generation.

00:03:37.323 --> 00:03:39.423
And now it's chaos in the genetics.

00:03:39.728 --> 00:03:43.502
And there's been no supply'cause love line crossing from the person they got theirs from.

00:03:44.103 --> 00:03:51.092
It's a whole can of worms that has this trickle down effect if you're not really sure on what you're producing and why you're producing it.

00:03:51.483 --> 00:03:59.233
And every time it's an additional layer deeper into Pandora's box rather than applying a finer and finer sieve.

00:03:59.983 --> 00:04:00.282
Yeah,

00:04:01.182 --> 00:04:01.332
I

00:04:01.332 --> 00:04:02.413
think that.

00:04:03.312 --> 00:04:23.773
The thing that frustrates people most about starting to breed poultry when they're first starting out and they don't realize it, what the cause was, but it's when you start with poor genetic quality birds, you will fight those problems for years before you ever get it worked out.

00:04:23.833 --> 00:04:24.523
Am I not right?

00:04:24.523 --> 00:04:24.973
Mandolin?

00:04:25.048 --> 00:04:25.137
You're

00:04:25.858 --> 00:04:26.548
absolutely right.

00:04:26.598 --> 00:04:31.007
I'm still fighting some little things, and I've been with this breed for eight years now.

00:04:31.908 --> 00:04:32.447
Absolutely.

00:04:32.658 --> 00:04:32.747
But

00:04:32.747 --> 00:04:33.887
they're coming together.

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Just gimme another 10 years.

00:04:35.898 --> 00:04:36.557
They'll be great.

00:04:37.458 --> 00:04:37.968
I think they're a lot

00:04:37.968 --> 00:04:39.947
better than you give'em credit for, to be honest with you.

00:04:40.742 --> 00:04:41.387
Recently, I'm my

00:04:41.387 --> 00:04:42.108
one more enemy

00:04:42.807 --> 00:04:43.802
had the, oh yeah.

00:04:44.463 --> 00:04:48.603
I recently had the opportunity to meet the person that my line came from.

00:04:48.733 --> 00:04:55.853
They were the steward of it for about 30 years, and then when they retired it to my breeder who I've been working with.

00:04:55.853 --> 00:05:13.552
But I got to meet that person and really pick their brain about, what they were doing for all this time with that line and what their goals were and actually be able to share some, current notes, they were interested, if you leave your eggs for more than three days, do the birds go broody?

00:05:13.913 --> 00:05:14.963
I'm like, yeah.

00:05:15.622 --> 00:05:16.372
He's good.

00:05:16.733 --> 00:05:20.173
'cause that was important to them to not lose that broodiness.

00:05:20.692 --> 00:05:21.923
And he knows that.

00:05:21.952 --> 00:05:22.432
He's you know what?

00:05:22.432 --> 00:05:27.483
That came very specifically from a bird that I got from Gina Briscoe, back in.

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And he knew the date that he got that bird and who it came from.

00:05:31.742 --> 00:05:34.083
To very specifically get that broody quality

00:05:34.983 --> 00:05:48.182
well, and even with a limited experience I had from the one male I got from you, I could see decades in that bird and then going a generation and two generations ahead from him.

00:05:48.543 --> 00:05:50.583
It's still there.

00:05:51.122 --> 00:05:58.442
The slope of the tail, the way the feathers, it's still there, even though I'm trying to interrupt some of that with my own little science project.

00:05:58.442 --> 00:05:58.533
Sure.

00:05:58.533 --> 00:06:01.233
It's because it's been so highly refined that those

00:06:01.233 --> 00:06:04.233
decades are still there three generations away.

00:06:04.562 --> 00:06:05.223
It's neat

00:06:05.523 --> 00:06:06.502
That, and then Mark A.

00:06:06.502 --> 00:06:07.112
Good breeder.

00:06:07.668 --> 00:06:12.283
That's genetics, that's, that's heterogeneity amongst the flock.

00:06:12.822 --> 00:06:27.853
When you get to the point where, you know what, I can pretty much go out to my yard and choose any rooster and any hen and put'em together and know that I'm going to get a chick that looks like those two and looks like everybody else out in my yard.

00:06:28.752 --> 00:06:31.843
And that's ama, that's so rare to find now too.

00:06:32.742 --> 00:06:42.862
You can only do it if you dedicated bloodlines are hard to find, working a dedicated bloodline that has, literally decades of work in it and that level of refinement.

00:06:43.762 --> 00:06:47.737
Let me ask you guys a question and same question for our listeners too.

00:06:47.737 --> 00:06:51.757
If you're listening to is, as I ask this question, run it through your mind.

00:06:52.658 --> 00:06:53.017
Okay.

00:06:53.497 --> 00:06:55.898
What are some of the most surprising.

00:06:56.798 --> 00:07:02.158
Or frustrating even unexpected results you've seen in poultry breeding.

00:07:03.057 --> 00:07:03.807
I have a couple

00:07:04.708 --> 00:07:05.327
and they were

00:07:06.228 --> 00:07:14.267
leg color that shouldn't have been anywhere near those genetics, but it snuck out anyways, but thankfully I know.

00:07:15.168 --> 00:07:20.632
Where Uhhuh, but it was a surprise because it wasn't shown in any of the birds prior.

00:07:20.632 --> 00:07:22.523
It snuck out later after the fact.

00:07:23.423 --> 00:07:33.612
There's reports coming from the eastern townships of Quebec about the Santa Cla starting to get some blue tint in their shanks, which is not supposed to be there.

00:07:34.512 --> 00:07:37.632
It's not So that, and then how did it's not, and why, how

00:07:37.632 --> 00:07:38.233
did it get there?

00:07:38.233 --> 00:07:40.033
There was a cross somewhere.

00:07:40.252 --> 00:07:40.853
We don't know.

00:07:40.952 --> 00:07:42.302
But it got in there somehow.

00:07:42.302 --> 00:07:43.682
So now it's gotta come back out.

00:07:44.583 --> 00:07:46.052
Maybe they got meaty too.

00:07:46.952 --> 00:07:47.752
I don't know.

00:07:48.653 --> 00:07:49.973
I'd be curious to know

00:07:50.872 --> 00:07:54.642
another question that I get asked a lot by new breeders.

00:07:55.543 --> 00:08:01.017
What are some of the no, why did my chicks come out completely different from the parents?

00:08:01.918 --> 00:08:05.968
It depends, and it goes back to what are the genetics in your parents?

00:08:06.867 --> 00:08:09.387
They probably carry a lot of recessive traits.

00:08:10.288 --> 00:08:11.817
When they got together, Presto change.

00:08:11.997 --> 00:08:13.708
You had very different looking chicks.

00:08:14.137 --> 00:08:15.668
And what were the grandparents

00:08:16.088 --> 00:08:16.447
exactly?

00:08:16.447 --> 00:08:17.677
It goes back great grandparents, generation grandparents.

00:08:17.677 --> 00:08:17.827
Were

00:08:17.827 --> 00:08:21.067
all four of them the same kind of bird, or was one of them a little different?

00:08:21.968 --> 00:08:32.758
The genetics can seemingly just pop up outta nowhere, but it really doesn't because it's been buried in those birds over generations.

00:08:33.477 --> 00:08:34.918
But when things are just right.

00:08:35.413 --> 00:08:37.273
Ma'am, it pops up and sure.

00:08:37.273 --> 00:08:38.232
And then you got problems.

00:08:38.293 --> 00:08:49.482
But the advantage to that is when it pops up and it happens like that, then once you know it's in there, you can begin to work it out and eliminate it from your flock.

00:08:50.173 --> 00:08:51.373
Yeah, and

00:08:51.373 --> 00:08:57.613
a great way to highlight these things is by close breeding or a closed breeding system.

00:08:57.763 --> 00:09:07.842
Because you're purposely stacking these recessive traits and basically taunting them to express themselves.

00:09:08.743 --> 00:09:09.913
So you can eradicate them, you

00:09:09.913 --> 00:09:10.602
can do a little sibling mating.

00:09:10.602 --> 00:09:11.533
You're not taunting.

00:09:11.533 --> 00:09:14.322
You'll see it, you'll see it quick too.

00:09:14.413 --> 00:09:14.923
Yes.

00:09:14.927 --> 00:09:15.538
And that's great.

00:09:15.857 --> 00:09:18.863
'cause I don't have 30 years to put into my line.

00:09:18.913 --> 00:09:26.383
I'm relying on the previous 30 years and, just trying to hang on to that work and not mess it up right now.

00:09:27.283 --> 00:09:29.643
And I don't want our listeners either to.

00:09:30.543 --> 00:09:47.942
And we've talked about recesses from a negative point of view, and they're certainly not there's some traits in our bird that are recessive traits, egg production, for example, and it takes refining those recessive traits to get really good egg layers.

00:09:48.842 --> 00:09:53.508
And there's others I just pull that one out for an example, but recessive.

00:09:54.197 --> 00:09:55.727
They no doubt about it.

00:09:55.727 --> 00:10:07.817
They can be our most problem causing thing to breed poultry, but they can also be the most rewarding things when we get the good Resus traits to line up properly and come out into adults.

00:10:08.717 --> 00:10:08.918
I have

00:10:09.038 --> 00:10:09.837
question and when you start, I have question

00:10:10.113 --> 00:10:17.493
trap nesting and you can figure out which hen gives me three eggs before a pause and which hen gives me five eggs before a pause.

00:10:18.043 --> 00:10:21.462
There's some pretty strong evidence as to which one you'd probably wanna select for mating.

00:10:21.942 --> 00:10:22.243
Yeah.

00:10:23.143 --> 00:10:23.927
What's your question, Mandy?

00:10:24.827 --> 00:10:34.957
Now if you go way back into the original poultry genetics like back to the original jungle foul, they were just seasonal layers.

00:10:35.317 --> 00:10:49.182
Like they didn't do year round laying, and they would've laid clutches of X number of eggs and then they would set, and maybe the seasons allow'em to get two or three batches in, but they were just seasonal layers.

00:10:49.182 --> 00:10:57.793
So now the poultry expectation for a chicken is to lay year round almost as nonstop as possible.

00:10:58.312 --> 00:10:58.582
And.

00:10:59.092 --> 00:11:05.903
That's a long way from a seasonal layer, like what they're capable of now in those laying breeds, man

00:11:06.503 --> 00:11:07.732
Mandy, don't forget.

00:11:07.732 --> 00:11:08.003
Yeah.

00:11:08.033 --> 00:11:08.332
Yeah.

00:11:08.332 --> 00:11:09.383
They're really good layers.

00:11:09.773 --> 00:11:14.722
But a lot of the secret to having you around eggs is in how you manage your birds.

00:11:15.503 --> 00:11:15.832
Yeah.

00:11:15.832 --> 00:11:18.773
With the lighting and nutrition, the lighting that feed and all that

00:11:18.773 --> 00:11:19.133
kind of stuff.

00:11:19.342 --> 00:11:25.503
If you don't maximize or optimize your lighting and your nutritional programs you won't have year round layers.

00:11:26.403 --> 00:11:27.753
Not after that first year.

00:11:28.653 --> 00:11:28.743
Nope.

00:11:29.643 --> 00:11:30.212
But sometimes

00:11:30.212 --> 00:11:31.653
they do pretty good the first year.

00:11:31.653 --> 00:11:34.533
It's after that when they need a little more help.

00:11:35.432 --> 00:11:36.033
Let's see.

00:11:36.033 --> 00:11:44.822
I've got, And you alluded to something there that a lot of folks overlook, and that's the importance of selecting for longevity.

00:11:45.722 --> 00:11:46.562
In their birds.

00:11:47.253 --> 00:11:54.003
That's not the case with the hybrid birds, the production birds, it's not important to them.

00:11:54.003 --> 00:11:57.692
For example, the meat birds, they're processed at eight weeks.

00:11:58.592 --> 00:11:58.802
Yeah.

00:11:58.802 --> 00:12:00.663
There's no expected longevity there.

00:12:00.712 --> 00:12:03.173
If you can get'em to eight weeks, you're done good.

00:12:04.072 --> 00:12:07.822
Egg layers on the other hand those really high producing birds.

00:12:08.722 --> 00:12:18.173
You gotta have the genetics, but you also got to have a well managed and tightly regulated management program to get those numbers.

00:12:19.072 --> 00:12:26.633
In the hybrid layers too, they're designed to be a relatively short term bird to maximize their first year production.

00:12:27.533 --> 00:12:28.403
That's part of it.

00:12:28.403 --> 00:12:29.633
You know what the rest of it is.

00:12:30.533 --> 00:12:30.822
What

00:12:31.207 --> 00:12:35.107
if they only produce for a year, then you gotta go back to the breeders to get more.

00:12:35.498 --> 00:12:35.977
Yeah.

00:12:35.977 --> 00:12:37.268
Keep that cycle going.

00:12:37.807 --> 00:12:40.268
Uhhuh, planned obsolescence.

00:12:41.168 --> 00:12:41.738
Pretty much.

00:12:41.738 --> 00:12:42.427
Absolutely.

00:12:42.638 --> 00:12:43.207
Pretty much.

00:12:43.597 --> 00:12:44.347
Okay, so

00:12:44.648 --> 00:12:49.988
what is, what practically, let's talk about toes on the ground for chickens.

00:12:49.988 --> 00:12:54.427
What does the backyard breeder I, oh, I hate.

00:12:55.102 --> 00:12:55.793
Term, sorry.

00:12:55.793 --> 00:12:57.628
'cause that has such a negative term because it's not a

00:12:57.827 --> 00:13:01.418
negative term, but then it, it's been used that way to describe what

00:13:01.418 --> 00:13:06.878
does the self sustaining homesteader small platform here.

00:13:07.268 --> 00:13:07.927
Small.

00:13:08.227 --> 00:13:08.528
Yeah.

00:13:08.648 --> 00:13:10.998
But we so I'm always looking sustainability.

00:13:11.048 --> 00:13:15.908
You need to be able to keep this going without reaching out and bringing in new genetics.

00:13:15.967 --> 00:13:18.128
To me, that's my very first criteria.

00:13:18.187 --> 00:13:21.937
But, and then after that, how do they make their selections and go forward?

00:13:22.837 --> 00:13:32.332
To me it boils down to the first thing you select for are physical characteristics, body type ske, skeletal.

00:13:33.232 --> 00:13:33.682
Structure.

00:13:34.403 --> 00:13:42.082
That's the most important because without the skeletal support, you won't have good meat production.

00:13:42.113 --> 00:13:46.743
You won't have good expert egg production because you're just not capable of doing that.

00:13:46.773 --> 00:13:46.802
Okay.

00:13:47.702 --> 00:13:53.732
So type confirmation, whatever you wanna call it, that's the most important thing that you focus on.

00:13:54.633 --> 00:13:57.033
After that, I'd like to see health and longevity.

00:13:57.857 --> 00:14:06.467
And not hatch from'em too soon, like just because those hands are laying at six months old, that's not the best time to start hatching.

00:14:06.467 --> 00:14:12.618
You really wanna wait and have those girls prove that they can last and be productive.

00:14:12.618 --> 00:14:14.748
Get their laying history.

00:14:15.587 --> 00:14:17.927
Learn about'em before you start hatching from'em.

00:14:18.258 --> 00:14:25.998
Some of the best birds I ever produced came from two and three and 4-year-old hens.

00:14:26.898 --> 00:14:43.697
And part of that is because by the time a female lives that long, okay, and you use her for breeding that long, you know precisely what she's capable of producing in chicks.

00:14:44.597 --> 00:14:49.727
The other side of that coin is reading from birds that, oh, will inherently.

00:14:50.628 --> 00:14:59.538
Build in longevity to your flock because if a bird stays healthy and productive, just stays alive for a long period of time.

00:14:59.567 --> 00:15:00.107
Yeah.

00:15:00.528 --> 00:15:01.908
Predator awareness alone.

00:15:02.207 --> 00:15:02.927
Shoe lasted

00:15:02.927 --> 00:15:03.888
three years here.

00:15:03.888 --> 00:15:04.908
That's pretty darn good.

00:15:05.477 --> 00:15:08.697
That's a foundation that's worth breeding on, or building on.

00:15:09.597 --> 00:15:09.837
Yeah.

00:15:10.738 --> 00:15:13.528
A bird that stays alive just long enough to get your first.

00:15:14.023 --> 00:15:20.913
Set of eggs out of, and then keels over from, coronary issues is not a, that's enough for, I wanna be breeding from all

00:15:20.913 --> 00:15:22.023
the offspring too.

00:15:22.923 --> 00:15:26.643
Let's say I put a little test hatch of eggs in, but then I lost her a month later.

00:15:26.643 --> 00:15:28.383
But if I rule'em all out

00:15:29.283 --> 00:15:35.977
all the old time master breeders that I ever knew, every single one of'em would never breed.

00:15:36.873 --> 00:15:39.273
From females less than 12 months old.

00:15:40.173 --> 00:15:42.993
I'm seeing why over the last several years.

00:15:43.442 --> 00:15:43.802
Yeah,

00:15:44.283 --> 00:15:45.363
don't get in a hurry.

00:15:45.962 --> 00:15:56.623
Breeding from one and two year and older birds is what by the time they hit that milestone is what they're going to be from then on out

00:15:57.133 --> 00:15:58.302
by two years old.

00:15:58.302 --> 00:15:59.677
They pretty much are exactly.

00:16:00.418 --> 00:16:14.128
What they're gonna be, and especially for looks too Sure, like just how they finished out in the tail set wing, set feather quality, comb sizes, all of that is mature at two years old.

00:16:14.518 --> 00:16:21.988
And when folks are going through their birds and sorting out their breeders at 16, 18, 20 weeks old and then leaving'em grow.

00:16:22.888 --> 00:16:31.768
Maybe you lose the looks if you selected that early and because by the time they're a year and a half, two years old, that bird's gonna look a lot different.

00:16:32.378 --> 00:16:34.057
They haven't even gone through their first,

00:16:34.577 --> 00:16:36.888
they don't even have their big kid feathers yet.

00:16:37.008 --> 00:16:37.488
So

00:16:38.388 --> 00:16:42.857
there, there's no way to know, is, do they molt consistently with the rest of the flock?

00:16:42.857 --> 00:16:44.268
We're looking for the heterogeneity.

00:16:44.298 --> 00:16:46.187
How quickly do they drop their feathers?

00:16:46.518 --> 00:16:48.197
How quickly do they shed their weight?

00:16:48.258 --> 00:16:54.488
And how quickly can you get'em back on feed and into production Again, you can't possibly know any of those things before it happens.

00:16:55.388 --> 00:17:03.187
And John mentioned this earlier and we just zoomed right past it and didn't give it as much due as it should have.

00:17:04.087 --> 00:17:06.097
The importance of record keeping.

00:17:06.998 --> 00:17:09.938
I just cannot overstress that enough.

00:17:10.627 --> 00:17:21.157
I'll guarantee you, if you're reading from Repair Trio Birds, yeah, you can probably track it for a couple of years, but sooner or later you're gonna get to the point you can't remember it all.

00:17:22.057 --> 00:17:23.228
It's important to know.

00:17:24.127 --> 00:17:25.657
What's behind your birds?

00:17:25.657 --> 00:17:27.367
In other words, what did the parents look like?

00:17:27.397 --> 00:17:28.897
What did the grandparents look like?

00:17:28.928 --> 00:17:30.667
What did the great grandparents look like?

00:17:31.208 --> 00:17:36.817
When you get to the point that you're answering those questions, you've got a very uniform flock of birds.

00:17:36.817 --> 00:17:38.912
And you can't do it unless you keep good records.

00:17:38.912 --> 00:17:42.151
And that's being able to tell one bird from the other.

00:17:42.151 --> 00:17:44.941
When you get'em, start getting'em looking uniform, it can be hard.

00:17:45.840 --> 00:17:46.080
Sure.

00:17:46.681 --> 00:17:48.631
That gives you all your production data.

00:17:49.080 --> 00:17:51.240
The health data, the whole nine yards.

00:17:52.080 --> 00:17:54.381
And that's a big part of the breeder's puzzle.

00:17:55.280 --> 00:18:00.191
If there's, if they're serious breeders, that's a big part of what they need to help move forward.

00:18:01.090 --> 00:18:06.641
How about some of these questions, and I've heard'em all, but I want to get your, you guys take on it.

00:18:07.540 --> 00:18:10.480
I frequently get off or I guess ask these questions.

00:18:11.381 --> 00:18:16.510
Can I breed my own birds without understanding genetics?

00:18:17.411 --> 00:18:17.830
Madeleine,

00:18:18.730 --> 00:18:24.070
you can, and I bet you learn a lot about'em after the fact.

00:18:24.971 --> 00:18:30.250
As soon as you start having questions come up from what exactly you hatched.

00:18:30.671 --> 00:18:34.840
Now, I wouldn't call it breeding without any genetic knowledge.

00:18:34.840 --> 00:18:36.730
You're pretty much just hatching eggs.

00:18:37.286 --> 00:18:45.655
And the questions you come up with after that hatch and how deep you go into it after that's when you start maybe taking up breathing.

00:18:45.655 --> 00:18:46.316
For real.

00:18:47.215 --> 00:18:48.236
I found out when I, that's how

00:18:48.236 --> 00:18:49.226
most people get there.

00:18:49.226 --> 00:18:51.175
They go, oh, how'd that happen?

00:18:51.266 --> 00:18:53.246
They do a little research like, oh, this is cool.

00:18:53.246 --> 00:18:53.365
Yeah,

00:18:53.395 --> 00:18:56.635
they hatch some eggs and go, wait a minute.

00:18:57.536 --> 00:19:00.296
I found out after I'd been doing this about two years.

00:19:01.195 --> 00:19:05.875
That I didn't know nearly enough information to keep doing it for much longer.

00:19:06.776 --> 00:19:08.365
It's an eyeopener, but it's true.

00:19:08.576 --> 00:19:09.476
It really is.

00:19:09.536 --> 00:19:10.435
That happened to me.

00:19:10.736 --> 00:19:14.635
I was just hatching along and then all of a sudden, oh, you know what?

00:19:15.296 --> 00:19:16.586
Breeding matters.

00:19:16.645 --> 00:19:18.175
Oh, there's stuff to learn.

00:19:18.566 --> 00:19:25.556
Oh, there's entire processes for all these different eventualities and there's all these different methods.

00:19:26.455 --> 00:19:27.806
John, here's a good question for you.

00:19:28.346 --> 00:19:28.645
Yes, sir.

00:19:29.546 --> 00:19:32.026
Another question I get asked, what?

00:19:32.161 --> 00:19:37.351
What should I look for in my flock when selecting breeding stock?

00:19:37.740 --> 00:19:38.820
What would be your advice?

00:19:39.721 --> 00:19:44.161
Heterogeneity, meaning they all look very similar.

00:19:45.060 --> 00:19:48.361
Like you drive by and go, oh, they look like they're related.

00:19:48.361 --> 00:19:50.191
You drive by a family reunion.

00:19:51.060 --> 00:19:59.820
And you go, oh, those people all look different, but they all look very similar and that, that's what I'm looking for, that they all look very similar.

00:20:00.721 --> 00:20:02.881
And that's what builds your flock consistency.

00:20:03.540 --> 00:20:03.780
Yes.

00:20:03.810 --> 00:20:04.921
Yes, absolutely.

00:20:05.820 --> 00:20:06.421
Madeline.

00:20:07.306 --> 00:20:08.326
Here's a question for you.

00:20:09.226 --> 00:20:11.955
Why did my chicks look different from the parent birds?

00:20:12.496 --> 00:20:13.155
I don't get it.

00:20:14.056 --> 00:20:28.756
Depending on the parents, they might have different genetics behind them or pretty similar themselves, but they may be hiding some recessives that are sneaking through from grandparents and great-grandparents and on back through there.

00:20:28.756 --> 00:20:30.496
So it just depends on.

00:20:31.351 --> 00:20:34.891
How those genetics line up in the individual chicks.

00:20:34.891 --> 00:20:36.691
Now think of your day old chicks.

00:20:36.931 --> 00:20:39.030
They're like little lottery tickets.

00:20:39.601 --> 00:20:51.000
You put a dozen eggs in the incubator, you're gonna get 12 different results and you don't even get to scratch off those lottery tickets until those birds are grown and you actually get to see what you're looking at.

00:20:51.901 --> 00:20:55.891
So just because someone may be advertising, show quality eggs.

00:20:56.790 --> 00:20:58.615
No, there's no such thing as that.

00:20:58.615 --> 00:21:12.266
Each little lottery ticket chick needs time to grow up and show you exactly what they inherited, and then you'll have to figure out if they breed that same thing forward again, or if they breed forward some funny stuff.

00:21:12.836 --> 00:21:14.006
Not forgetting that.

00:21:14.665 --> 00:21:19.465
Everything about their husbandry affects their phenotypical expression as well.

00:21:19.615 --> 00:21:23.395
So whether it works for you and your location is what you're looking for.

00:21:23.445 --> 00:21:25.965
And then the nutrition and all of that,

00:21:26.536 --> 00:21:27.885
it's just everything,

00:21:27.976 --> 00:21:29.385
A lot of parts and pieces.

00:21:30.286 --> 00:21:30.705
Here's

00:21:30.826 --> 00:21:39.885
a question, and I'd like for both of you to answer this, John, we can start with you, but how do I prevent unwanted traits from popping up?

00:21:40.786 --> 00:21:41.625
Force them to

00:21:42.405 --> 00:21:43.185
and root them out.

00:21:44.086 --> 00:21:44.836
That's how I do it.

00:21:45.736 --> 00:21:48.286
Line breeding, close breeding, whatever you wanna call it.

00:21:48.346 --> 00:21:49.365
Allele stacking.

00:21:50.145 --> 00:21:50.476
I wanna.

00:21:51.375 --> 00:21:55.726
Force these guys through a genetic bottleneck, so to speak.

00:21:56.625 --> 00:22:01.336
You know that anybody who's been in the military will cringe when they hear I'm a filter, not a pump.

00:22:01.756 --> 00:22:08.566
'cause our recruit division commanders, drill instructors, we heard that all the time, but that's how I view it.

00:22:08.566 --> 00:22:10.486
I'm a filter, not a pump.

00:22:11.385 --> 00:22:12.976
What would you tell to filter everything out?

00:22:13.875 --> 00:22:25.756
I would suggest getting stock that has been systematically bred for decades to reduce the odds of having any stuff come up because that work was already done.

00:22:26.655 --> 00:22:33.615
And I would advise against Bloodline crosses because that's exactly how that'll bring those traits.

00:22:33.721 --> 00:22:36.340
The more diversity you have, the more.

00:22:37.240 --> 00:22:38.740
Diversity you're gonna see.

00:22:38.800 --> 00:22:43.570
And sometimes it's a good thing and sometimes it's an unwanted trait that pops out instead.

00:22:44.471 --> 00:22:53.260
Otherwise, you're gonna have to do what John suggested, which is force that stuff out and just breed right on past it and may the strongest survive.

00:22:54.161 --> 00:23:06.381
But if it's already there or it's already there, if that work has already been, sorry, if the work has already been done by, decades of selective breeding, we're really not bringing much new to the surface by doing.

00:23:06.381 --> 00:23:07.971
There shouldn't be many surprises.

00:23:07.971 --> 00:23:08.361
No.

00:23:08.451 --> 00:23:09.951
Only if it gets interrupted.

00:23:10.851 --> 00:23:12.351
With Bloodline Cross, or, which is why

00:23:12.351 --> 00:23:32.250
it's so important to be able to have a reach back to your bloodline or maybe a reach forward, being able to reach out to people that you sold your genetics to and you trust them and they've, asked you for your selection advice and you've, actually established, Hey, if I ever get in trouble, I want to be able to get some eggs back from you.

00:23:32.986 --> 00:23:38.536
And I'd like to feel comfortable that your eggs are something that I actually want back.

00:23:39.435 --> 00:23:45.346
And I never really valued having just one breed the way that I value that now.

00:23:45.976 --> 00:23:50.056
'cause there can be a lot of pitfalls in raising multiple breeds.

00:23:50.536 --> 00:23:51.076
Oh boy.

00:23:51.076 --> 00:23:51.316
For

00:23:51.316 --> 00:23:59.445
example, did you put a cover over all your pens or can a MR from three pens down interrupt what you have going on in a different pen?

00:24:00.346 --> 00:24:06.375
There are you free ranging, and then someone left a gate open and now they're all ranging together.

00:24:07.276 --> 00:24:12.226
But having just one breed is like genetic insurance to prevent that.

00:24:12.736 --> 00:24:12.826
Sure.

00:24:12.826 --> 00:24:14.955
And then I also have covered runs to make sure,

00:24:15.855 --> 00:24:18.846
I've got I recently just did get a rooster.

00:24:19.746 --> 00:24:26.736
But I was able to reach out to somebody and it was strange how far these birds had migrated, so to speak.

00:24:26.786 --> 00:24:35.756
Somebody that I sold some birds to two years ago had'em for a while, then sold them to somebody else, and they've dwindled down.

00:24:35.756 --> 00:24:36.955
But hearing that.

00:24:37.211 --> 00:24:42.191
These birds are still out there in the wild, so to speak, at three years of age and still producing.

00:24:42.280 --> 00:24:45.550
They're just coming back into lay and I'm like, oh, really?

00:24:46.161 --> 00:24:55.651
Could I possibly buy those birds back or have them back to, set with my rooster and I'll be happy to give you that bird back when I'm done with her and some eggs.

00:24:56.550 --> 00:24:57.030
Nice.

00:24:57.840 --> 00:25:02.161
We're getting down to the time to say goodbye, but before we do.

00:25:03.060 --> 00:25:05.310
I think we all ought to share some thoughts.

00:25:06.211 --> 00:25:22.236
If I could say just one thing, and it's hard for me to do just one thing, but, and that's to encourage our listeners if they're serious about breeding, spend time observing your birds.

00:25:23.135 --> 00:25:30.425
Not just looking at'em, handling them, evaluating them, go over'em with a fine tooth comb.

00:25:31.326 --> 00:25:36.516
That's when I finally started making some progress is when I started practicing that mandolin.

00:25:36.516 --> 00:25:37.596
What would your advice be?

00:25:38.496 --> 00:25:43.175
Pretty similar to yours, except I turn it into a little bit of a game.

00:25:43.536 --> 00:25:48.786
You know that game photo hunt where you're looking for what's different from one image to another?

00:25:49.550 --> 00:25:50.961
Do that to your birds.

00:25:51.381 --> 00:25:56.800
Every last little detail, the shape of the beak, the color of the beak, the comb the whole thing.

00:25:56.800 --> 00:26:03.131
Head to tail down to their toes, play some photo hunt with them and really pick'em apart.

00:26:03.401 --> 00:26:14.830
And then play the other fun game of compensation mating and figuring out which one actually belongs with this bird or this other bird for their mate.

00:26:14.861 --> 00:26:16.361
If you have more than one male.

00:26:17.260 --> 00:26:21.760
Who are his best mates from the females you have available.

00:26:21.760 --> 00:26:33.760
So do a little photo hunt, figure out some compensation, matings, and then just to teach yourself a little more, switch'em, see if your results are the same, similar, or different.

00:26:34.181 --> 00:26:39.530
Because all of those little experiences with every single batch of chicks, it's gonna teach you something.

00:26:40.431 --> 00:26:41.441
John, what's your thoughts?

00:26:42.340 --> 00:26:45.191
Right now I've got that Sesame Street song stuck in my head.

00:26:45.191 --> 00:26:45.851
Thanks, Mandy.

00:26:46.540 --> 00:26:52.701
One of these things is not like the others but I, it's because I sing that to myself when I'm looking at the flock.

00:26:52.701 --> 00:26:54.830
I'm always going, wait that's different.

00:26:55.276 --> 00:26:55.425
Oh.

00:26:55.766 --> 00:26:58.526