July 8, 2024
Managing The Molt 2.0-Part 2
In this episode, Jeff Mattocks, Carey Blackmon, and Rip Stalvey finish their explanation of how you can effectively manage your flock's annual molt. They explain how you can help your birds manage stress, lose weight, and regrow beautiful feathers after the molt.
You can email us at - poultrykeeperspodcast@gmail.com
Join our Facebook Groups:
Poultry Keepers Podcast -
https://www.facebook.com/groups/907679597724837
Poultry Keepers 360 - - https://www.facebook.com/groups/354973752688125
Poultry Breeders Nutrition - https://www.facebook.com/groups/4908798409211973
Check out the Poultry Kepers Podcast YouTube Channel -
https://www.youtube.com/@PoultryKeepersPodcast/featured
WEBVTT
00:00:00.119 --> 00:00:04.879
Hi, I'm John Gunterman, and I want to welcome you to another episode of the Poultry Keepers podcast.
00:00:05.490 --> 00:00:15.470
Joining me in the studio are Mandelyn Royal and Rip Stalvey, the rest of our podcast team, and we're looking forward to visiting with you and talking poultry from feathers to function.
00:00:26.359 --> 00:00:30.339
It's going to get you to these nutritional levels, right?
00:00:30.429 --> 00:00:34.710
So whichever is easier for you, whichever way you want to go, fine with me.
00:00:35.509 --> 00:00:42.390
But you want those higher, you want the higher amino acids, you want, don't blow them up with protein, right?
00:00:42.460 --> 00:00:51.719
Because if you go and get like a 26 percent protein thinking you're going to make perfect feathers, you're actually going to end up with frayed and curly feathers.
00:00:52.170 --> 00:00:53.729
from overfeed protein.
00:00:53.840 --> 00:00:56.259
You're going to blow out the feather, right?
00:00:56.399 --> 00:00:58.969
And you're going to look, it's going to look uglier.
00:00:59.420 --> 00:01:00.969
You just not going to be happy.
00:01:01.770 --> 00:01:03.710
It looks like a frizz or something like that.
00:01:03.759 --> 00:01:04.560
What's that chicken?
00:01:04.560 --> 00:01:05.680
There's a chicken that way.
00:01:05.680 --> 00:01:06.370
Frizzles.
00:01:06.769 --> 00:01:07.239
Frizzles.
00:01:07.250 --> 00:01:07.469
Yeah.
00:01:07.769 --> 00:01:07.780
Frizzles.
00:01:07.780 --> 00:01:08.260
Yeah.
00:01:08.739 --> 00:01:11.579
They're all going to look like frizzles if you overdo the protein.
00:01:11.819 --> 00:01:13.799
So don't do that.
00:01:13.799 --> 00:01:15.579
They'll look like that until the next molt, right?
00:01:16.219 --> 00:01:19.560
It'll calm down a little bit if you get the feed adjusted quick enough.
00:01:19.650 --> 00:01:24.420
But, yeah, it's not going to be a show quality bird until you molt it again.
00:01:25.219 --> 00:01:32.670
Because once those hard feathers come out, and once they form, you're pretty much stuck with your large, your primaries until the next molt.
00:01:33.469 --> 00:01:36.000
I don't think they'll recycle those, do they Rip?
00:01:36.799 --> 00:01:42.010
I think the tail, I think the tail and the primaries on the wing are there for the year.
00:01:42.560 --> 00:01:43.245
Yeah, they are.
00:01:43.295 --> 00:01:44.144
They don't cycle.
00:01:44.944 --> 00:01:47.724
I hate it when you let me lead, we don't get very many questions.
00:01:48.525 --> 00:01:50.094
That's cause you do such a great job.
00:01:50.295 --> 00:01:52.734
Yeah, we're only halfway through.
00:01:53.329 --> 00:02:14.770
Alright, so look, lots of fresh moving air, this time of the year again, it's hot, the air doesn't want to move a whole lot for a lot of us, try and figure it out, you want to capture any outside, air movement that you can, in your facility, open it up, move some air, if you need to invest in some fans, invest in some fans, okay?
00:02:15.569 --> 00:02:22.650
Clean, cool the cooler you keep that bird actually, the more it stimulates feather follicles, okay?
00:02:22.919 --> 00:02:28.900
There's something inside that bird and based on temperature and what's going on, in the environment.
00:02:29.574 --> 00:02:32.175
You can greatly enhance feather follicles.
00:02:32.324 --> 00:02:33.264
Clean, cool water.
00:02:33.384 --> 00:02:35.485
Again, if you won't drink it, don't serve it.
00:02:35.645 --> 00:02:38.745
It just don't, you're not doing yourself any favors.
00:02:38.794 --> 00:02:42.585
And I know this, here's the number one comment I get when I say this.
00:02:43.044 --> 00:02:45.544
Yeah, but I see my chickens drinking out of a mud puddle.
00:02:46.250 --> 00:02:51.560
Yeah I can't help it, but maybe they're nutritionally deficient from something you're not giving them, right?
00:02:51.949 --> 00:02:52.860
Yeah, they will.
00:02:52.900 --> 00:02:55.629
They'll chase water across the yard, down the driveway.
00:02:56.060 --> 00:02:57.509
They'll drink out of a mud puddle.
00:02:58.090 --> 00:03:02.789
Actually, some breeds of chickens will do what they call mud fever.
00:03:03.319 --> 00:03:09.500
They'll purposely pick up dirt and put it in their water, and they'll make cloudy water.
00:03:09.659 --> 00:03:13.520
And, it really annoys the owner, of course, because they don't understand why.
00:03:14.319 --> 00:03:18.460
They're doing it because they have a digestive upset, right?
00:03:18.590 --> 00:03:31.250
Something in their gut is making their stomach burn or their intestines out of balance, whether it's, a bad bacteria whether the pH is off, whether there's a mycotoxin in the feed.
00:03:31.800 --> 00:03:35.430
The chicken ain't stupid, it's the owner who can't figure it out, right?
00:03:35.500 --> 00:03:38.419
But they're trying to fix a problem.
00:03:38.469 --> 00:03:44.194
So if you ever run into mud fever, you're Where they actually pick dirt up and put it in their water.
00:03:44.844 --> 00:03:45.175
Yeah.
00:03:45.224 --> 00:03:47.574
You may want to look, they're trying to tell you something.
00:03:47.754 --> 00:03:49.955
Just just don't think they're stupid chickens.
00:03:50.294 --> 00:03:51.444
Give it, give it a look.
00:03:51.444 --> 00:03:55.685
What would you do if you're trying to tell you that?
00:03:56.185 --> 00:03:57.375
I start going through.
00:03:57.615 --> 00:03:59.685
Like I'm going to check the water quality, right?
00:03:59.805 --> 00:04:01.235
Is my water pH low?
00:04:01.335 --> 00:04:02.514
Is my water bad?
00:04:02.675 --> 00:04:09.074
And then I'm going to start looking at the feed, is the quality of the feed everything it ought to be, right?
00:04:09.115 --> 00:04:14.514
You, Gary, it's not been long since you've been exposed to better feed.
00:04:14.655 --> 00:04:15.585
Top shelf feed.
00:04:15.639 --> 00:04:15.849
right?
00:04:15.849 --> 00:04:15.998
Yep.
00:04:16.173 --> 00:04:25.184
And the first time you opened that bag of top shelf feed and that smell came out of that bag, you were like, I never smelled this before in my life.
00:04:25.463 --> 00:04:29.858
I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm gonna say this, I used to be skeptical.
00:04:29.858 --> 00:04:31.149
I used to think it was crazy.
00:04:31.908 --> 00:04:47.098
But now, I am a firm believer that 30 35 bag of feed, you crack that thing open, you smell it, you want to put some in a bowl and eat it and I'm to the point now where I won't feed my birds something I won't eat.
00:04:47.899 --> 00:04:54.699
For multiple reasons, one being that eventually I may eat them, but I'm not going to feed my birds something that I won't eat.
00:04:55.329 --> 00:04:58.668
And in doing that, it is correct.
00:04:58.699 --> 00:05:02.334
They You know, I feed my birds two and a half, three ounces.
00:05:03.134 --> 00:05:04.213
I feed them three.
00:05:04.213 --> 00:05:08.894
If I'm being generous, it's usually two to two and a half ounces is what they get per day.
00:05:09.684 --> 00:05:22.394
And I made when we did the screen that had the molt ration, I started laughing cause I've had some places that I had to go the last couple of weeks, so I had somebody stayed at my farm to take care of my animals.
00:05:23.059 --> 00:05:28.088
And he called me the first night and he said, Hey something's different about this feed.
00:05:28.088 --> 00:05:29.459
It's not what you normally have.
00:05:30.259 --> 00:05:36.249
And I just started laughing cause I'll make it and I'll blend it and then I'll put it in a drum for storage.
00:05:36.358 --> 00:05:37.908
And I said, it is different.
00:05:37.978 --> 00:05:39.369
It's not the same.
00:05:39.379 --> 00:05:45.668
It's not ruined because I cut the protein down to about 12 percent and it, it smelled different.
00:05:46.468 --> 00:05:47.889
So that was funny to me.
00:05:47.889 --> 00:05:52.178
And he, my backyard looks like a feather massacre right now.
00:05:52.874 --> 00:06:16.444
I looked at it the other day, it went through one of my cameras and I was like, it's, there, it's because I knew the molt was coming, they're going through it right now, and it looks rough, but, they're starting to pull out of it, and I'll be back home this weekend, and I will make them what they're used to getting, just like what you said, right around 20 percent protein.
00:06:17.173 --> 00:06:20.343
All the amino acids that they need and what they should be getting.
00:06:21.019 --> 00:06:25.678
And they'll grow me some beautiful feathers and hopefully win me some trophies.
00:06:26.478 --> 00:06:27.098
They should.
00:06:27.348 --> 00:06:33.189
Check their body weight, check their pelvic bones, make sure that they've lost their, the fat and got, tightened up on them.
00:06:33.709 --> 00:06:38.619
I'll get my bucket and go hang out with them Saturday before I change their diet, I promise.
00:06:39.418 --> 00:06:48.249
But getting back on track, folks, you want to, you need to feed lower energy, lower protein, higher fiber.
00:06:48.968 --> 00:06:56.709
Again, depending on if you've never done a molt, how old your birds are, this could be two or it could be three weeks, right?
00:06:56.718 --> 00:07:13.473
So if you've got four, five, six year old hens and you've never, ever molted them, and you've been overfeeding them most of their life, You're probably going to go closer to three weeks to get those pelvic bones back down to being sharp and tight, okay?
00:07:13.504 --> 00:07:27.163
So just, once, once you got full feather drop I actually really wish people would monitor their body temperatures, check it periodically, but I don't rectal thermometer anymore.
00:07:27.644 --> 00:07:28.944
I'm sure you can still buy them.
00:07:29.744 --> 00:07:34.574
But I don't know how many people listening are willing to actually use a rectal thermometer on their ticket.
00:07:34.584 --> 00:07:40.774
So anyway but if we could track it and we see that fever break, the feathers should be gone.
00:07:41.298 --> 00:07:49.928
That's when you want to go back over to that performance feed, following that feather drop to get good the follicles, and bring them back around.
00:07:49.988 --> 00:07:53.949
I saw that in the list there from Joy they should be ready to molt.
00:07:54.069 --> 00:08:05.918
Anytime now and you may actually want to encourage the molt, just so they're not straggling along, but you can see a molt anytime after one year, so you're there.
00:08:06.718 --> 00:08:18.709
You probably want to get them on, you probably want to get them on your schedule, especially if you're going to show, depending on when you need eggs, can actually put a, you can actually mold a chicken whenever you want.
00:08:18.769 --> 00:08:32.099
You may have to withhold water for a day to get it to trigger, but usually that high energy or that low energy, high protein feed and being limited, you can get them into a mold pretty easily.
00:08:32.813 --> 00:08:44.724
Yeah, you can feed the sprouted grain fodder to increase the fiber still gonna have to reduce your total, your total caloric intake and protein and total volume of feed.
00:08:44.984 --> 00:08:49.423
So you're gonna have to figure that out the sprouted grain fodder.
00:08:50.058 --> 00:08:51.958
To get it down low enough, right?
00:08:52.009 --> 00:08:54.698
So it's going to be almost triple the weight.
00:08:54.818 --> 00:09:01.589
So you're looking at five or six ounces after it's been sprouted to get a two ounce equivalent.
00:09:02.389 --> 00:09:02.688
Okay.
00:09:02.869 --> 00:09:03.798
The biggest thing.
00:09:04.599 --> 00:09:05.208
Go ahead, Rob.
00:09:05.269 --> 00:09:05.708
Let's see.
00:09:05.769 --> 00:09:11.849
Anything specific, diet, molt wise for a long tailed bird, like a Phoenix.
00:09:12.609 --> 00:09:14.318
Rob, I honestly don't know.
00:09:14.519 --> 00:09:16.798
I, I've shared with you what I know about the molt.
00:09:17.599 --> 00:09:22.859
When it comes down to being breed specific, I, Rip you got any help for me here?
00:09:23.658 --> 00:09:30.548
I know that the Phoenix breeders that I know, they always prefer a higher protein feed.
00:09:30.558 --> 00:09:38.278
And I suspect that's because what they're getting, usually a game bird feed, has higher levels of amino acids.
00:09:38.278 --> 00:09:40.339
So they see an improvement in their feathers.
00:09:41.139 --> 00:09:48.619
I have been trying to find a couple of phoenix breeders that would be willing to do a little experimental feed trial with those birds.
00:09:49.259 --> 00:09:57.798
And I can't help but wonder, about what was it, a couple of months ago, we did that show and talked about cysteine and the effect that it has on feathers and how to improve them.
00:09:58.428 --> 00:09:59.109
It'd be interesting.
00:09:59.109 --> 00:10:02.528
Now, Kerry, I know you weren't going to say anything about this, but I'll bring it up.
00:10:03.078 --> 00:10:06.649
Your show pro supplement has added cysteine to it, doesn't it?
00:10:07.448 --> 00:10:16.609
It does, and I do have a phoenix breeder that I caught them right as they had some fixing to hatch out.
00:10:17.408 --> 00:10:23.318
So we'll have some solid data probably in another month or three.
00:10:23.938 --> 00:10:42.229
Even on the Phoenix early on working with a breeder, I've got a, an American game, gamefowl guy in Kentucky and he, some of his genetics are running, 32, 33, 34 inch streamer feathers, tail feathers.
00:10:42.818 --> 00:10:46.859
And, we moulted them out and we did see.
00:10:47.448 --> 00:10:53.948
He was doing, like the catfish and the cat food and the, that kind of feed prior to knowing me, right?
00:10:54.028 --> 00:11:04.073
So we made some adjustments and, we got him on a good feed, so we had gained like six to eight inches on some of those streamers.
00:11:04.653 --> 00:11:10.854
Coming through the moult, getting them recycled, coming out the other side on a good, properly balanced feed.
00:11:11.354 --> 00:11:13.104
That's got to make a difference.
00:11:13.514 --> 00:11:15.193
I'm sorry, it really doesn't.
00:11:15.313 --> 00:11:15.793
It will.
00:11:15.933 --> 00:11:16.153
It will.
00:11:16.953 --> 00:11:22.073
But I don't have any statistical data to tell Rob, this is what you have to do.
00:11:22.203 --> 00:11:23.203
Oh, I agree.
00:11:23.783 --> 00:11:30.114
And we know on paper that the cysteine is the predominant amino acid for feathers.
00:11:30.913 --> 00:11:39.764
And moving forward, I'm anxious to see, what carries new supplement with the cysteine in it, and you've got half a dozen people out there trying it.
00:11:39.783 --> 00:11:41.374
We'll know, it won't take long.
00:11:42.004 --> 00:11:43.073
We will know.
00:11:43.433 --> 00:11:43.783
Joe.
00:11:44.583 --> 00:11:52.254
Folks, the key to the molt is don't be in a hurry, you gotta have patience, I know the birds look ugly.
00:11:52.558 --> 00:12:00.578
But feeding them high protein and feeding them wrong and ignoring them, a lot of people actually ignore the birds during the molt because of how poorly they look.
00:12:01.339 --> 00:12:04.808
And that's when, that's when your bird actually needs you the most, right?
00:12:05.308 --> 00:12:07.749
That's when you need to be doing it.
00:12:07.808 --> 00:12:14.054
If you screw up the molt, It doesn't matter what you do for the next 12 months you will not fix it.
00:12:14.059 --> 00:12:14.558
Can't fix it.
00:12:14.749 --> 00:12:15.038
Nope.
00:12:15.298 --> 00:12:16.844
You can't fix live with what you did.
00:12:17.433 --> 00:12:27.369
Getting that molt done right, getting it clean, helping that bird through, reducing stress, reducing body fat, and it's going to be, is going be the.
00:12:28.168 --> 00:12:31.089
For the post molt feed, is that fed by weight as well?
00:12:31.798 --> 00:12:37.058
It is but you're going back to normal feeding levels based on, what your bird is.
00:12:37.168 --> 00:12:40.999
Kaisa has broad, er, she has heritage bronze.
00:12:41.068 --> 00:12:44.183
She has some excellent, award winning bronze turkeys.
00:12:44.864 --> 00:13:08.894
For her, coming out of the moult, in case I'd probably be at probably close to eight ounces, and I would split that feeding into two just for better utilization, but a heavier feeding in the afternoon once the feathers are back in and the, once the follicles are really good, feathers are back in and the bird looks good, then readjust to maintenance so that they don't get too fat.
00:13:09.053 --> 00:13:18.024
You're going to have to, hanging out with your birds, which you like to do, just check them for fat as often as you can and try not to get them too fat.
00:13:18.293 --> 00:13:23.464
But a turkey may not look right if it doesn't have a certain amount of body fat.
00:13:23.504 --> 00:13:28.583
It's not going to look full enough and feel right for show, in the judge's hand.
00:13:28.943 --> 00:13:29.104
Rip.
00:13:29.903 --> 00:13:31.114
You ever judge turkeys?
00:13:31.913 --> 00:13:35.344
Yes used to, they just judged them looking at them in the pen.
00:13:35.933 --> 00:13:41.894
But lately, thank goodness, they went back to the old way of doing it and taking those birds out and actually getting hands on those birds.
00:13:42.693 --> 00:13:51.394
And it makes a big difference in what you can, feathers can hide so much, holding a 30, 30 pound bird, 30 plus pound bird is going to be difficult.
00:13:51.394 --> 00:13:54.004
That is not for the faint of heart, right?
00:13:54.004 --> 00:14:05.323
Hopefully they got a stand or something where they have a table that has a slot inclined to it and they lay them on that table and they hold the legs.
00:14:05.984 --> 00:14:07.364
I need to watch that sometime.
00:14:07.413 --> 00:14:13.134
But to me, I think a turkey to feel right to a judge and actually look right.
00:14:13.548 --> 00:14:16.219
I think is going to need some body fat.
00:14:16.359 --> 00:14:16.818
Yes.
00:14:16.869 --> 00:14:17.958
No, absolutely not.
00:14:17.999 --> 00:14:32.918
You do not want it to be totally lean and tight, but but yeah, controlled feed pretty much for any of the birds that we're talking about here tonight, when they come out of the molt, you're going to go back to their normal ration, pretty much the same amount.
00:14:32.938 --> 00:14:38.948
You can be slightly above for that first couple of weeks coming out of the molt just to encourage that feather follicle.
00:14:39.543 --> 00:14:49.774
But, don't stay on free choice or, an extra amount of feed for more than three weeks, okay, and then get them back down to their maintenance.
00:14:50.384 --> 00:15:11.053
Those feather follicles are formed, you've got what you got, but getting the feathers out as quick as you can, and that's really the point of the molt feed, recipe that I put out there getting those feathers out as quick as you can, so that you can repair, rebuild those follicles, for the new feathers is going to yield you better plumage in the long run.
00:15:11.854 --> 00:15:14.864
Do you feel the pelvic bones from the internal?
00:15:14.933 --> 00:15:17.394
I just, Feel them from behind.
00:15:17.413 --> 00:15:21.673
I'm coming in, I'm coming straight in from the vent, from the back end.
00:15:22.308 --> 00:15:26.979
I'm usually coming in with two or three fingers gently, and I'm not pushing real hard.
00:15:26.979 --> 00:15:36.249
I come in until I feel the pelvic bone and then, based on my feel, are they pointy, are they firm or are they soft and rounded?
00:15:36.278 --> 00:15:37.979
The thing is are they rounded?
00:15:38.464 --> 00:15:48.423
I could almost say, if they feel like the eraser end of a pencil, which people don't even know what pencils are anymore versus, versus the pointy end of the pencil, right?
00:15:48.744 --> 00:15:53.714
I want them to feel more like the pointy end of the pencil, not the eraser end of the pencil.
00:15:54.264 --> 00:15:55.413
They should not be blunt.
00:15:55.894 --> 00:15:58.104
I want them to feel sharper coming out of the mold.
00:15:58.903 --> 00:15:59.614
What else you got?
00:15:59.964 --> 00:16:01.254
I was clicking the wrong button there.
00:16:01.254 --> 00:16:01.614
Sorry.
00:16:02.114 --> 00:16:05.369
Joy says her girls are just for eggs.
00:16:05.688 --> 00:16:10.658
And she has found a rectal thermometer that reads up to 109 degrees.
00:16:10.668 --> 00:16:12.418
She got it off of Amazon.
00:16:12.458 --> 00:16:13.139
Awesome.
00:16:13.198 --> 00:16:13.798
Awesome.
00:16:14.208 --> 00:16:23.639
And even if your birds are for your own eggs and your own enjoyment in the backyard, here's the thing, doing a good proper molt it doesn't have to be cruel.
00:16:23.668 --> 00:16:29.458
Every, you say molt and people cringe like you're going to ruin your birds and you're being cruel and inhumane.
00:16:29.908 --> 00:16:52.389
And, if you actually learn how to do a good molt and you let them cycle through, instead of having laying hens for 5, 6, 7 years, now, I know people out there that have had hens that are still producing, not large amounts, but still producing at 9 years of age, okay.
00:16:53.188 --> 00:17:03.149
And if you've got a really outstanding hen and she produces really well chicks, really good chicks on a regular basis, I would want to breed that bird just as long as I possibly could.
00:17:03.703 --> 00:17:07.054
Yeah, but how many nine year old birds do you know of, Rip?
00:17:07.304 --> 00:17:10.463
How common is it to hear somebody has a nine year old hen?
00:17:10.713 --> 00:17:11.683
That's very uncommon.
00:17:12.483 --> 00:17:15.933
Most folks won't even keep a bird past two years old before they're swapping it out.
00:17:16.733 --> 00:17:23.104
I don't know, you hit that, if you hit that perfect bird, you ever get that perfect hen that throws you the best chicks?
00:17:23.903 --> 00:17:27.834
Like you said, you want to keep her as long as you can.
00:17:28.104 --> 00:17:29.844
Ride that horse as far as you can.
00:17:29.933 --> 00:17:33.534
You bet, because that kind of hen is one in a million.
00:17:34.104 --> 00:17:36.044
And you need to get everything you can.
00:17:36.844 --> 00:17:39.894
And Lloyd, good to see you back on here again tonight.
00:17:40.683 --> 00:17:42.064
By golly, we've been missing you.
00:17:42.243 --> 00:17:43.023
Yes, sir.
00:17:43.463 --> 00:17:52.413
And I, you read this and you want to chuckle and he says, be careful with neighbors calling cops for animal abuse because chickens will be bawled and the whole yard is filled with feathers.
00:17:52.933 --> 00:17:53.173
Yeah.
00:17:53.284 --> 00:17:55.834
Folks, I actually had that happen to me one time.
00:17:56.193 --> 00:17:57.898
Sheriff's department came and got me.
00:17:58.699 --> 00:18:02.788
To take me to somebody's house and tell them what that guy, how that guy was mistreating those birds.
00:18:03.588 --> 00:18:06.169
And I, I explained carefully and what it all, it was.
00:18:06.169 --> 00:18:21.943
And as I drove off, I was just shaking my head, if people are, if people don't have chickens, never grew up around chickens and they don't know the process of then, yeah, to them, it looks like, you're doing something cruel and inhumane and, not at all.
00:18:22.034 --> 00:18:23.693
It's part of the natural cycle.
00:18:24.394 --> 00:18:24.804
Let's see.
00:18:24.804 --> 00:18:25.784
We had another one here.
00:18:25.784 --> 00:18:28.324
Oh, question about amino acids.
00:18:28.669 --> 00:18:36.999
Is there a human food that Jeff can suggest to give that my girls, to give that my girls can like sardines?
00:18:37.798 --> 00:18:39.469
Yeah, there's nothing wrong with sardines.
00:18:40.269 --> 00:18:40.989
I like them myself.
00:18:41.788 --> 00:18:44.828
Now, this happened purely by accident, right?
00:18:44.848 --> 00:18:46.919
Folks, I'm going to digress for a minute.
00:18:46.919 --> 00:18:47.558
We have time.
00:18:48.189 --> 00:18:49.378
I'm an avid fisherman.
00:18:49.659 --> 00:18:57.888
So I had a bad day of fishing and I came home with a bucket full of minnows, small fish that I was using for bait.
00:18:58.689 --> 00:19:03.009
And the day was quite depressing in the number of fish that I caught.
00:19:03.558 --> 00:19:05.489
And I didn't have a way to keep the minnows.
00:19:05.499 --> 00:19:14.169
So I went out back to the chicken coop and I pulled up my bucket and I started flipping minnows over the fence one at a time.
00:19:14.489 --> 00:19:15.689
One, one minute at a time.
00:19:16.179 --> 00:19:17.798
And it was hilarious.
00:19:18.108 --> 00:19:19.578
Talk about redneck entertainment, man.
00:19:19.588 --> 00:19:20.118
Yes.
00:19:20.189 --> 00:19:20.278
Yes.
00:19:20.568 --> 00:19:26.739
Now this was in the beginning of my chicken keeping years, when my daughter was about 10.
00:19:27.538 --> 00:19:36.769
And I think I had three buff arpingtons one male, two hens, and there was one other chicken in there, and they ate four dozen.
00:19:37.193 --> 00:19:37.794
Minnows.
00:19:38.054 --> 00:19:38.384
Okay.
00:19:38.953 --> 00:19:42.663
Their crop was so full of minnows, right?
00:19:42.794 --> 00:19:46.114
They looked like they all swallowed a softball, right?
00:19:46.614 --> 00:19:47.384
I can imagine.
00:19:47.743 --> 00:19:49.144
It was hilarious.
00:19:49.144 --> 00:19:54.483
That minnow had hit the ground and as soon as it twitched once, just wiggled once, they were on it.
00:19:54.683 --> 00:19:55.064
Yeah.
00:19:55.134 --> 00:19:55.284
Yeah.
00:19:55.723 --> 00:19:57.663
Am I telling you to go buy minnows?
00:19:58.223 --> 00:20:06.183
No, but if you need some good redneck entertainment, it's been a depressing day, yeah, that's a good way to get over it, right?
00:20:06.983 --> 00:20:16.844
Natalie wants to know, for cold climates, snow usually starts in November there, when should molts start in order to have them have full feathers before winter?
00:20:17.269 --> 00:20:30.699
I feel you, depending on the plumage of the bird, heavy plumage, light plumage, whatever, but I need at least 60 days for this whole cycle to really take place, even under control, you need 60 days.
00:20:30.788 --> 00:20:33.638
Natalie, I would be starting, anytime now.
00:20:33.828 --> 00:20:36.949
The latest for you, I would start is like August.
00:20:37.604 --> 00:20:42.453
Sometime in August, just to make sure you've got feathers back on by October.
00:20:42.993 --> 00:20:49.933
When it starts getting, I'd start getting colder, but I would push them into a mold, by August 15th at the latest.
00:20:50.634 --> 00:20:51.344
So soon.
00:20:52.144 --> 00:20:59.094
John Pelton wants to know, is it bad to push them too fast through the molt by giving them a supplement to help feather growth?
00:20:59.614 --> 00:21:04.193
Look, I'm recommending the feather, the supplement all the way through the molt, right?
00:21:04.233 --> 00:21:06.314
Because of the vitamins and the amino acids.
00:21:07.114 --> 00:21:13.778
All we're dropping is The, we're dropping the energy, we're dropping the protein, and we're increasing the fiber.
00:21:13.828 --> 00:21:20.128
Feathers are fully dropped, and again, checking their body temperature, they'll tell you when it's time, right?
00:21:20.159 --> 00:21:28.749
If you're looking at your birds every day you'll tell, you'll, feathers are gone and you start seeing the follicles swell with the new feathers.
00:21:29.148 --> 00:21:35.949
It's time to get them back on, a higher protein feed, a higher quality, a performance feed is what I'm calling it.
00:21:36.749 --> 00:21:52.213
Each breed is going to be a little bit different and if they've never been molted, John, that initial, the first time through, you could be three weeks, you could even be four weeks trying to get the fat off of them and getting them to mold out, right?
00:21:52.523 --> 00:22:04.394
Now, if you can make this an annual process, it'll be a lot easier down the road, but If you've got five, six year old hens that have never been molted, it could be a struggle.
00:22:04.493 --> 00:22:06.203
I'm not telling you it's going to be easy.
00:22:07.003 --> 00:22:12.124
And Stacy wants to know, how will this managed molt process impact egg production?
00:22:12.834 --> 00:22:41.913
If it's done correctly, you should in, in the, More of a commercial, more of a commercial type setting if the bird, we should be able to get 80 percent of the production after the molt that it had in the previous lay cycle, so if the bird averaged 80%, in its first lay cycle as a pullet, We should be able to get 64 to 70 percent on the second lay cycle.
00:22:42.364 --> 00:22:47.183
We assume roughly 10 percent drop in production after each molt cycle.
00:22:47.983 --> 00:22:50.594
Now, this is not true of every bird, every breed.
00:22:51.074 --> 00:22:52.483
That's an estimation.
00:22:52.814 --> 00:22:57.763
But we should be able to still get, really good viable eggs after the molt.
00:22:58.104 --> 00:22:58.993
They should be better.
00:22:59.403 --> 00:23:08.163
And you should, if you can shrink the ovaries back down and get them in good condition, so we get good egg follicles, we should be able to do really well.
00:23:08.963 --> 00:23:13.334
And finally, SG says, thank you for the golden girl support.
00:23:13.443 --> 00:23:16.054
And I assume she's talking about the Buff Orpingtons.
00:23:16.564 --> 00:23:17.074
Yeah.
00:23:17.874 --> 00:23:21.713
All right, either that or the old hens that we're talking about how to recycle.
00:23:21.794 --> 00:23:28.223
So yeah, because the golden girls on TV, the TV show was what three older women.
00:23:29.023 --> 00:23:35.864
I don't, I never really watched it, but I'm assuming Buff Arpington as well.
00:23:36.423 --> 00:23:38.923
I think that gets us down to the tail end of the show.
00:23:39.124 --> 00:23:41.644
And I just want to thank everybody for joining us tonight.
00:23:41.644 --> 00:23:45.173
We've had a great show and we've got some really good comments and questions.
00:23:45.818 --> 00:23:47.548
And advice on where to get stuff.
00:23:47.709 --> 00:23:49.048
We really appreciate that.
00:23:49.848 --> 00:23:53.858
Remember, we'll be back in two weeks with another Poultry Keepers 360 live.
00:23:54.499 --> 00:23:58.308
I would encourage you to listen to Poultry Keepers podcast.
00:23:58.429 --> 00:24:00.108
Comes out every Tuesday and.
00:24:00.608 --> 00:24:05.778
Kerry has a podcast, Poultry Nerds podcast, and that comes out Thursdays, is that right?
00:24:06.479 --> 00:24:07.078
Yes, sir.
00:24:07.409 --> 00:24:07.769
Okay.
00:24:08.328 --> 00:24:11.598
We got you covered on poultry information between the three of us here.
00:24:12.398 --> 00:24:16.798
So until next time, folks, thank you for joining us.
00:24:16.878 --> 00:24:23.679
And we hope that you're going to have a good time, and we will see you soon.
00:24:24.618 --> 00:24:27.848
This brings us to the close of another Poultry Keepers podcast.
00:24:27.888 --> 00:24:29.769
We're very happy you chose to join us.
00:24:29.878 --> 00:24:34.608
Until next time, we'd appreciate it if you would drop us a note, letting us know your thoughts about our podcast.
00:24:34.648 --> 00:24:37.459
Please share our podcast with your friends that keep poultry.
00:24:37.509 --> 00:24:41.479
We hope you'll join us again when we'll be talking poultry from feathers to function.
00:00:00.119 --> 00:00:04.879
Hi, I'm John Gunterman, and I want to welcome you to another episode of the Poultry Keepers podcast.
00:00:05.490 --> 00:00:15.470
Joining me in the studio are Mandelyn Royal and Rip Stalvey, the rest of our podcast team, and we're looking forward to visiting with you and talking poultry from feathers to function.
00:00:26.359 --> 00:00:30.339
It's going to get you to these nutritional levels, right?
00:00:30.429 --> 00:00:34.710
So whichever is easier for you, whichever way you want to go, fine with me.
00:00:35.509 --> 00:00:42.390
But you want those higher, you want the higher amino acids, you want, don't blow them up with protein, right?
00:00:42.460 --> 00:00:51.719
Because if you go and get like a 26 percent protein thinking you're going to make perfect feathers, you're actually going to end up with frayed and curly feathers.
00:00:52.170 --> 00:00:53.729
from overfeed protein.
00:00:53.840 --> 00:00:56.259
You're going to blow out the feather, right?
00:00:56.399 --> 00:00:58.969
And you're going to look, it's going to look uglier.
00:00:59.420 --> 00:01:00.969
You just not going to be happy.
00:01:01.770 --> 00:01:03.710
It looks like a frizz or something like that.
00:01:03.759 --> 00:01:04.560
What's that chicken?
00:01:04.560 --> 00:01:05.680
There's a chicken that way.
00:01:05.680 --> 00:01:06.370
Frizzles.
00:01:06.769 --> 00:01:07.239
Frizzles.
00:01:07.250 --> 00:01:07.469
Yeah.
00:01:07.769 --> 00:01:07.780
Frizzles.
00:01:07.780 --> 00:01:08.260
Yeah.
00:01:08.739 --> 00:01:11.579
They're all going to look like frizzles if you overdo the protein.
00:01:11.819 --> 00:01:13.799
So don't do that.
00:01:13.799 --> 00:01:15.579
They'll look like that until the next molt, right?
00:01:16.219 --> 00:01:19.560
It'll calm down a little bit if you get the feed adjusted quick enough.
00:01:19.650 --> 00:01:24.420
But, yeah, it's not going to be a show quality bird until you molt it again.
00:01:25.219 --> 00:01:32.670
Because once those hard feathers come out, and once they form, you're pretty much stuck with your large, your primaries until the next molt.
00:01:33.469 --> 00:01:36.000
I don't think they'll recycle those, do they Rip?
00:01:36.799 --> 00:01:42.010
I think the tail, I think the tail and the primaries on the wing are there for the year.
00:01:42.560 --> 00:01:43.245
Yeah, they are.
00:01:43.295 --> 00:01:44.144
They don't cycle.
00:01:44.944 --> 00:01:47.724
I hate it when you let me lead, we don't get very many questions.
00:01:48.525 --> 00:01:50.094
That's cause you do such a great job.
00:01:50.295 --> 00:01:52.734
Yeah, we're only halfway through.
00:01:53.329 --> 00:02:14.770
Alright, so look, lots of fresh moving air, this time of the year again, it's hot, the air doesn't want to move a whole lot for a lot of us, try and figure it out, you want to capture any outside, air movement that you can, in your facility, open it up, move some air, if you need to invest in some fans, invest in some fans, okay?
00:02:15.569 --> 00:02:22.650
Clean, cool the cooler you keep that bird actually, the more it stimulates feather follicles, okay?
00:02:22.919 --> 00:02:28.900
There's something inside that bird and based on temperature and what's going on, in the environment.
00:02:29.574 --> 00:02:32.175
You can greatly enhance feather follicles.
00:02:32.324 --> 00:02:33.264
Clean, cool water.
00:02:33.384 --> 00:02:35.485
Again, if you won't drink it, don't serve it.
00:02:35.645 --> 00:02:38.745
It just don't, you're not doing yourself any favors.
00:02:38.794 --> 00:02:42.585
And I know this, here's the number one comment I get when I say this.
00:02:43.044 --> 00:02:45.544
Yeah, but I see my chickens drinking out of a mud puddle.
00:02:46.250 --> 00:02:51.560
Yeah I can't help it, but maybe they're nutritionally deficient from something you're not giving them, right?
00:02:51.949 --> 00:02:52.860
Yeah, they will.
00:02:52.900 --> 00:02:55.629
They'll chase water across the yard, down the driveway.
00:02:56.060 --> 00:02:57.509
They'll drink out of a mud puddle.
00:02:58.090 --> 00:03:02.789
Actually, some breeds of chickens will do what they call mud fever.
00:03:03.319 --> 00:03:09.500
They'll purposely pick up dirt and put it in their water, and they'll make cloudy water.
00:03:09.659 --> 00:03:13.520
And, it really annoys the owner, of course, because they don't understand why.
00:03:14.319 --> 00:03:18.460
They're doing it because they have a digestive upset, right?
00:03:18.590 --> 00:03:31.250
Something in their gut is making their stomach burn or their intestines out of balance, whether it's, a bad bacteria whether the pH is off, whether there's a mycotoxin in the feed.
00:03:31.800 --> 00:03:35.430
The chicken ain't stupid, it's the owner who can't figure it out, right?
00:03:35.500 --> 00:03:38.419
But they're trying to fix a problem.
00:03:38.469 --> 00:03:44.194
So if you ever run into mud fever, you're Where they actually pick dirt up and put it in their water.
00:03:44.844 --> 00:03:45.175
Yeah.
00:03:45.224 --> 00:03:47.574
You may want to look, they're trying to tell you something.
00:03:47.754 --> 00:03:49.955
Just just don't think they're stupid chickens.
00:03:50.294 --> 00:03:51.444
Give it, give it a look.
00:03:51.444 --> 00:03:55.685
What would you do if you're trying to tell you that?
00:03:56.185 --> 00:03:57.375
I start going through.
00:03:57.615 --> 00:03:59.685
Like I'm going to check the water quality, right?
00:03:59.805 --> 00:04:01.235
Is my water pH low?
00:04:01.335 --> 00:04:02.514
Is my water bad?
00:04:02.675 --> 00:04:09.074
And then I'm going to start looking at the feed, is the quality of the feed everything it ought to be, right?
00:04:09.115 --> 00:04:14.514
You, Gary, it's not been long since you've been exposed to better feed.
00:04:14.655 --> 00:04:15.585
Top shelf feed.
00:04:15.639 --> 00:04:15.849
right?
00:04:15.849 --> 00:04:15.998
Yep.
00:04:16.173 --> 00:04:25.184
And the first time you opened that bag of top shelf feed and that smell came out of that bag, you were like, I never smelled this before in my life.
00:04:25.463 --> 00:04:29.858
I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm gonna say this, I used to be skeptical.
00:04:29.858 --> 00:04:31.149
I used to think it was crazy.
00:04:31.908 --> 00:04:47.098
But now, I am a firm believer that 30 35 bag of feed, you crack that thing open, you smell it, you want to put some in a bowl and eat it and I'm to the point now where I won't feed my birds something I won't eat.
00:04:47.899 --> 00:04:54.699
For multiple reasons, one being that eventually I may eat them, but I'm not going to feed my birds something that I won't eat.
00:04:55.329 --> 00:04:58.668
And in doing that, it is correct.
00:04:58.699 --> 00:05:02.334
They You know, I feed my birds two and a half, three ounces.
00:05:03.134 --> 00:05:04.213
I feed them three.
00:05:04.213 --> 00:05:08.894
If I'm being generous, it's usually two to two and a half ounces is what they get per day.
00:05:09.684 --> 00:05:22.394
And I made when we did the screen that had the molt ration, I started laughing cause I've had some places that I had to go the last couple of weeks, so I had somebody stayed at my farm to take care of my animals.
00:05:23.059 --> 00:05:28.088
And he called me the first night and he said, Hey something's different about this feed.
00:05:28.088 --> 00:05:29.459
It's not what you normally have.
00:05:30.259 --> 00:05:36.249
And I just started laughing cause I'll make it and I'll blend it and then I'll put it in a drum for storage.
00:05:36.358 --> 00:05:37.908
And I said, it is different.
00:05:37.978 --> 00:05:39.369
It's not the same.
00:05:39.379 --> 00:05:45.668
It's not ruined because I cut the protein down to about 12 percent and it, it smelled different.
00:05:46.468 --> 00:05:47.889
So that was funny to me.
00:05:47.889 --> 00:05:52.178
And he, my backyard looks like a feather massacre right now.
00:05:52.874 --> 00:06:16.444
I looked at it the other day, it went through one of my cameras and I was like, it's, there, it's because I knew the molt was coming, they're going through it right now, and it looks rough, but, they're starting to pull out of it, and I'll be back home this weekend, and I will make them what they're used to getting, just like what you said, right around 20 percent protein.
00:06:17.173 --> 00:06:20.343
All the amino acids that they need and what they should be getting.
00:06:21.019 --> 00:06:25.678
And they'll grow me some beautiful feathers and hopefully win me some trophies.
00:06:26.478 --> 00:06:27.098
They should.
00:06:27.348 --> 00:06:33.189
Check their body weight, check their pelvic bones, make sure that they've lost their, the fat and got, tightened up on them.
00:06:33.709 --> 00:06:38.619
I'll get my bucket and go hang out with them Saturday before I change their diet, I promise.
00:06:39.418 --> 00:06:48.249
But getting back on track, folks, you want to, you need to feed lower energy, lower protein, higher fiber.
00:06:48.968 --> 00:06:56.709
Again, depending on if you've never done a molt, how old your birds are, this could be two or it could be three weeks, right?
00:06:56.718 --> 00:07:13.473
So if you've got four, five, six year old hens and you've never, ever molted them, and you've been overfeeding them most of their life, You're probably going to go closer to three weeks to get those pelvic bones back down to being sharp and tight, okay?
00:07:13.504 --> 00:07:27.163
So just, once, once you got full feather drop I actually really wish people would monitor their body temperatures, check it periodically, but I don't rectal thermometer anymore.
00:07:27.644 --> 00:07:28.944
I'm sure you can still buy them.
00:07:29.744 --> 00:07:34.574
But I don't know how many people listening are willing to actually use a rectal thermometer on their ticket.
00:07:34.584 --> 00:07:40.774
So anyway but if we could track it and we see that fever break, the feathers should be gone.
00:07:41.298 --> 00:07:49.928
That's when you want to go back over to that performance feed, following that feather drop to get good the follicles, and bring them back around.
00:07:49.988 --> 00:07:53.949
I saw that in the list there from Joy they should be ready to molt.
00:07:54.069 --> 00:08:05.918
Anytime now and you may actually want to encourage the molt, just so they're not straggling along, but you can see a molt anytime after one year, so you're there.
00:08:06.718 --> 00:08:18.709
You probably want to get them on, you probably want to get them on your schedule, especially if you're going to show, depending on when you need eggs, can actually put a, you can actually mold a chicken whenever you want.
00:08:18.769 --> 00:08:32.099
You may have to withhold water for a day to get it to trigger, but usually that high energy or that low energy, high protein feed and being limited, you can get them into a mold pretty easily.
00:08:32.813 --> 00:08:44.724
Yeah, you can feed the sprouted grain fodder to increase the fiber still gonna have to reduce your total, your total caloric intake and protein and total volume of feed.
00:08:44.984 --> 00:08:49.423
So you're gonna have to figure that out the sprouted grain fodder.
00:08:50.058 --> 00:08:51.958
To get it down low enough, right?
00:08:52.009 --> 00:08:54.698
So it's going to be almost triple the weight.
00:08:54.818 --> 00:09:01.589
So you're looking at five or six ounces after it's been sprouted to get a two ounce equivalent.
00:09:02.389 --> 00:09:02.688
Okay.
00:09:02.869 --> 00:09:03.798
The biggest thing.
00:09:04.599 --> 00:09:05.208
Go ahead, Rob.
00:09:05.269 --> 00:09:05.708
Let's see.
00:09:05.769 --> 00:09:11.849
Anything specific, diet, molt wise for a long tailed bird, like a Phoenix.
00:09:12.609 --> 00:09:14.318
Rob, I honestly don't know.
00:09:14.519 --> 00:09:16.798
I, I've shared with you what I know about the molt.
00:09:17.599 --> 00:09:22.859
When it comes down to being breed specific, I, Rip you got any help for me here?
00:09:23.658 --> 00:09:30.548
I know that the Phoenix breeders that I know, they always prefer a higher protein feed.
00:09:30.558 --> 00:09:38.278
And I suspect that's because what they're getting, usually a game bird feed, has higher levels of amino acids.
00:09:38.278 --> 00:09:40.339
So they see an improvement in their feathers.
00:09:41.139 --> 00:09:48.619
I have been trying to find a couple of phoenix breeders that would be willing to do a little experimental feed trial with those birds.
00:09:49.259 --> 00:09:57.798
And I can't help but wonder, about what was it, a couple of months ago, we did that show and talked about cysteine and the effect that it has on feathers and how to improve them.
00:09:58.428 --> 00:09:59.109
It'd be interesting.
00:09:59.109 --> 00:10:02.528
Now, Kerry, I know you weren't going to say anything about this, but I'll bring it up.
00:10:03.078 --> 00:10:06.649
Your show pro supplement has added cysteine to it, doesn't it?
00:10:07.448 --> 00:10:16.609
It does, and I do have a phoenix breeder that I caught them right as they had some fixing to hatch out.
00:10:17.408 --> 00:10:23.318
So we'll have some solid data probably in another month or three.
00:10:23.938 --> 00:10:42.229
Even on the Phoenix early on working with a breeder, I've got a, an American game, gamefowl guy in Kentucky and he, some of his genetics are running, 32, 33, 34 inch streamer feathers, tail feathers.
00:10:42.818 --> 00:10:46.859
And, we moulted them out and we did see.
00:10:47.448 --> 00:10:53.948
He was doing, like the catfish and the cat food and the, that kind of feed prior to knowing me, right?
00:10:54.028 --> 00:11:04.073
So we made some adjustments and, we got him on a good feed, so we had gained like six to eight inches on some of those streamers.
00:11:04.653 --> 00:11:10.854
Coming through the moult, getting them recycled, coming out the other side on a good, properly balanced feed.
00:11:11.354 --> 00:11:13.104
That's got to make a difference.
00:11:13.514 --> 00:11:15.193
I'm sorry, it really doesn't.
00:11:15.313 --> 00:11:15.793
It will.
00:11:15.933 --> 00:11:16.153
It will.
00:11:16.953 --> 00:11:22.073
But I don't have any statistical data to tell Rob, this is what you have to do.
00:11:22.203 --> 00:11:23.203
Oh, I agree.
00:11:23.783 --> 00:11:30.114
And we know on paper that the cysteine is the predominant amino acid for feathers.
00:11:30.913 --> 00:11:39.764
And moving forward, I'm anxious to see, what carries new supplement with the cysteine in it, and you've got half a dozen people out there trying it.
00:11:39.783 --> 00:11:41.374
We'll know, it won't take long.
00:11:42.004 --> 00:11:43.073
We will know.
00:11:43.433 --> 00:11:43.783
Joe.
00:11:44.583 --> 00:11:52.254
Folks, the key to the molt is don't be in a hurry, you gotta have patience, I know the birds look ugly.
00:11:52.558 --> 00:12:00.578
But feeding them high protein and feeding them wrong and ignoring them, a lot of people actually ignore the birds during the molt because of how poorly they look.
00:12:01.339 --> 00:12:04.808
And that's when, that's when your bird actually needs you the most, right?
00:12:05.308 --> 00:12:07.749
That's when you need to be doing it.
00:12:07.808 --> 00:12:14.054
If you screw up the molt, It doesn't matter what you do for the next 12 months you will not fix it.
00:12:14.059 --> 00:12:14.558
Can't fix it.
00:12:14.749 --> 00:12:15.038
Nope.
00:12:15.298 --> 00:12:16.844
You can't fix live with what you did.
00:12:17.433 --> 00:12:27.369
Getting that molt done right, getting it clean, helping that bird through, reducing stress, reducing body fat, and it's going to be, is going be the.
00:12:28.168 --> 00:12:31.089
For the post molt feed, is that fed by weight as well?
00:12:31.798 --> 00:12:37.058
It is but you're going back to normal feeding levels based on, what your bird is.
00:12:37.168 --> 00:12:40.999
Kaisa has broad, er, she has heritage bronze.
00:12:41.068 --> 00:12:44.183
She has some excellent, award winning bronze turkeys.
00:12:44.864 --> 00:13:08.894
For her, coming out of the moult, in case I'd probably be at probably close to eight ounces, and I would split that feeding into two just for better utilization, but a heavier feeding in the afternoon once the feathers are back in and the, once the follicles are really good, feathers are back in and the bird looks good, then readjust to maintenance so that they don't get too fat.
00:13:09.053 --> 00:13:18.024
You're going to have to, hanging out with your birds, which you like to do, just check them for fat as often as you can and try not to get them too fat.
00:13:18.293 --> 00:13:23.464
But a turkey may not look right if it doesn't have a certain amount of body fat.
00:13:23.504 --> 00:13:28.583
It's not going to look full enough and feel right for show, in the judge's hand.
00:13:28.943 --> 00:13:29.104
Rip.
00:13:29.903 --> 00:13:31.114
You ever judge turkeys?
00:13:31.913 --> 00:13:35.344
Yes used to, they just judged them looking at them in the pen.
00:13:35.933 --> 00:13:41.894
But lately, thank goodness, they went back to the old way of doing it and taking those birds out and actually getting hands on those birds.
00:13:42.693 --> 00:13:51.394
And it makes a big difference in what you can, feathers can hide so much, holding a 30, 30 pound bird, 30 plus pound bird is going to be difficult.
00:13:51.394 --> 00:13:54.004
That is not for the faint of heart, right?
00:13:54.004 --> 00:14:05.323
Hopefully they got a stand or something where they have a table that has a slot inclined to it and they lay them on that table and they hold the legs.
00:14:05.984 --> 00:14:07.364
I need to watch that sometime.
00:14:07.413 --> 00:14:13.134
But to me, I think a turkey to feel right to a judge and actually look right.
00:14:13.548 --> 00:14:16.219
I think is going to need some body fat.
00:14:16.359 --> 00:14:16.818
Yes.
00:14:16.869 --> 00:14:17.958
No, absolutely not.
00:14:17.999 --> 00:14:32.918
You do not want it to be totally lean and tight, but but yeah, controlled feed pretty much for any of the birds that we're talking about here tonight, when they come out of the molt, you're going to go back to their normal ration, pretty much the same amount.
00:14:32.938 --> 00:14:38.948
You can be slightly above for that first couple of weeks coming out of the molt just to encourage that feather follicle.
00:14:39.543 --> 00:14:49.774
But, don't stay on free choice or, an extra amount of feed for more than three weeks, okay, and then get them back down to their maintenance.
00:14:50.384 --> 00:15:11.053
Those feather follicles are formed, you've got what you got, but getting the feathers out as quick as you can, and that's really the point of the molt feed, recipe that I put out there getting those feathers out as quick as you can, so that you can repair, rebuild those follicles, for the new feathers is going to yield you better plumage in the long run.
00:15:11.854 --> 00:15:14.864
Do you feel the pelvic bones from the internal?
00:15:14.933 --> 00:15:17.394
I just, Feel them from behind.
00:15:17.413 --> 00:15:21.673
I'm coming in, I'm coming straight in from the vent, from the back end.
00:15:22.308 --> 00:15:26.979
I'm usually coming in with two or three fingers gently, and I'm not pushing real hard.
00:15:26.979 --> 00:15:36.249
I come in until I feel the pelvic bone and then, based on my feel, are they pointy, are they firm or are they soft and rounded?
00:15:36.278 --> 00:15:37.979
The thing is are they rounded?
00:15:38.464 --> 00:15:48.423
I could almost say, if they feel like the eraser end of a pencil, which people don't even know what pencils are anymore versus, versus the pointy end of the pencil, right?
00:15:48.744 --> 00:15:53.714
I want them to feel more like the pointy end of the pencil, not the eraser end of the pencil.
00:15:54.264 --> 00:15:55.413
They should not be blunt.
00:15:55.894 --> 00:15:58.104
I want them to feel sharper coming out of the mold.
00:15:58.903 --> 00:15:59.614
What else you got?
00:15:59.964 --> 00:16:01.254
I was clicking the wrong button there.
00:16:01.254 --> 00:16:01.614
Sorry.
00:16:02.114 --> 00:16:05.369
Joy says her girls are just for eggs.
00:16:05.688 --> 00:16:10.658
And she has found a rectal thermometer that reads up to 109 degrees.
00:16:10.668 --> 00:16:12.418
She got it off of Amazon.
00:16:12.458 --> 00:16:13.139
Awesome.
00:16:13.198 --> 00:16:13.798
Awesome.
00:16:14.208 --> 00:16:23.639
And even if your birds are for your own eggs and your own enjoyment in the backyard, here's the thing, doing a good proper molt it doesn't have to be cruel.
00:16:23.668 --> 00:16:29.458
Every, you say molt and people cringe like you're going to ruin your birds and you're being cruel and inhumane.
00:16:29.908 --> 00:16:52.389
And, if you actually learn how to do a good molt and you let them cycle through, instead of having laying hens for 5, 6, 7 years, now, I know people out there that have had hens that are still producing, not large amounts, but still producing at 9 years of age, okay.
00:16:53.188 --> 00:17:03.149
And if you've got a really outstanding hen and she produces really well chicks, really good chicks on a regular basis, I would want to breed that bird just as long as I possibly could.
00:17:03.703 --> 00:17:07.054
Yeah, but how many nine year old birds do you know of, Rip?
00:17:07.304 --> 00:17:10.463
How common is it to hear somebody has a nine year old hen?
00:17:10.713 --> 00:17:11.683
That's very uncommon.
00:17:12.483 --> 00:17:15.933
Most folks won't even keep a bird past two years old before they're swapping it out.
00:17:16.733 --> 00:17:23.104
I don't know, you hit that, if you hit that perfect bird, you ever get that perfect hen that throws you the best chicks?
00:17:23.903 --> 00:17:27.834
Like you said, you want to keep her as long as you can.
00:17:28.104 --> 00:17:29.844
Ride that horse as far as you can.
00:17:29.933 --> 00:17:33.534
You bet, because that kind of hen is one in a million.
00:17:34.104 --> 00:17:36.044
And you need to get everything you can.
00:17:36.844 --> 00:17:39.894
And Lloyd, good to see you back on here again tonight.
00:17:40.683 --> 00:17:42.064
By golly, we've been missing you.
00:17:42.243 --> 00:17:43.023
Yes, sir.
00:17:43.463 --> 00:17:52.413
And I, you read this and you want to chuckle and he says, be careful with neighbors calling cops for animal abuse because chickens will be bawled and the whole yard is filled with feathers.
00:17:52.933 --> 00:17:53.173
Yeah.
00:17:53.284 --> 00:17:55.834
Folks, I actually had that happen to me one time.
00:17:56.193 --> 00:17:57.898
Sheriff's department came and got me.
00:17:58.699 --> 00:18:02.788
To take me to somebody's house and tell them what that guy, how that guy was mistreating those birds.
00:18:03.588 --> 00:18:06.169
And I, I explained carefully and what it all, it was.
00:18:06.169 --> 00:18:21.943
And as I drove off, I was just shaking my head, if people are, if people don't have chickens, never grew up around chickens and they don't know the process of then, yeah, to them, it looks like, you're doing something cruel and inhumane and, not at all.
00:18:22.034 --> 00:18:23.693
It's part of the natural cycle.
00:18:24.394 --> 00:18:24.804
Let's see.
00:18:24.804 --> 00:18:25.784
We had another one here.
00:18:25.784 --> 00:18:28.324
Oh, question about amino acids.
00:18:28.669 --> 00:18:36.999
Is there a human food that Jeff can suggest to give that my girls, to give that my girls can like sardines?
00:18:37.798 --> 00:18:39.469
Yeah, there's nothing wrong with sardines.
00:18:40.269 --> 00:18:40.989
I like them myself.
00:18:41.788 --> 00:18:44.828
Now, this happened purely by accident, right?
00:18:44.848 --> 00:18:46.919
Folks, I'm going to digress for a minute.
00:18:46.919 --> 00:18:47.558
We have time.
00:18:48.189 --> 00:18:49.378
I'm an avid fisherman.
00:18:49.659 --> 00:18:57.888
So I had a bad day of fishing and I came home with a bucket full of minnows, small fish that I was using for bait.
00:18:58.689 --> 00:19:03.009
And the day was quite depressing in the number of fish that I caught.
00:19:03.558 --> 00:19:05.489
And I didn't have a way to keep the minnows.
00:19:05.499 --> 00:19:14.169
So I went out back to the chicken coop and I pulled up my bucket and I started flipping minnows over the fence one at a time.
00:19:14.489 --> 00:19:15.689
One, one minute at a time.
00:19:16.179 --> 00:19:17.798
And it was hilarious.
00:19:18.108 --> 00:19:19.578
Talk about redneck entertainment, man.
00:19:19.588 --> 00:19:20.118
Yes.
00:19:20.189 --> 00:19:20.278
Yes.
00:19:20.568 --> 00:19:26.739
Now this was in the beginning of my chicken keeping years, when my daughter was about 10.
00:19:27.538 --> 00:19:36.769
And I think I had three buff arpingtons one male, two hens, and there was one other chicken in there, and they ate four dozen.
00:19:37.193 --> 00:19:37.794
Minnows.
00:19:38.054 --> 00:19:38.384
Okay.
00:19:38.953 --> 00:19:42.663
Their crop was so full of minnows, right?
00:19:42.794 --> 00:19:46.114
They looked like they all swallowed a softball, right?
00:19:46.614 --> 00:19:47.384
I can imagine.
00:19:47.743 --> 00:19:49.144
It was hilarious.
00:19:49.144 --> 00:19:54.483
That minnow had hit the ground and as soon as it twitched once, just wiggled once, they were on it.
00:19:54.683 --> 00:19:55.064
Yeah.
00:19:55.134 --> 00:19:55.284
Yeah.
00:19:55.723 --> 00:19:57.663
Am I telling you to go buy minnows?
00:19:58.223 --> 00:20:06.183
No, but if you need some good redneck entertainment, it's been a depressing day, yeah, that's a good way to get over it, right?
00:20:06.983 --> 00:20:16.844
Natalie wants to know, for cold climates, snow usually starts in November there, when should molts start in order to have them have full feathers before winter?
00:20:17.269 --> 00:20:30.699
I feel you, depending on the plumage of the bird, heavy plumage, light plumage, whatever, but I need at least 60 days for this whole cycle to really take place, even under control, you need 60 days.
00:20:30.788 --> 00:20:33.638
Natalie, I would be starting, anytime now.
00:20:33.828 --> 00:20:36.949
The latest for you, I would start is like August.
00:20:37.604 --> 00:20:42.453
Sometime in August, just to make sure you've got feathers back on by October.
00:20:42.993 --> 00:20:49.933
When it starts getting, I'd start getting colder, but I would push them into a mold, by August 15th at the latest.
00:20:50.634 --> 00:20:51.344
So soon.
00:20:52.144 --> 00:20:59.094
John Pelton wants to know, is it bad to push them too fast through the molt by giving them a supplement to help feather growth?
00:20:59.614 --> 00:21:04.193
Look, I'm recommending the feather, the supplement all the way through the molt, right?
00:21:04.233 --> 00:21:06.314
Because of the vitamins and the amino acids.
00:21:07.114 --> 00:21:13.778
All we're dropping is The, we're dropping the energy, we're dropping the protein, and we're increasing the fiber.
00:21:13.828 --> 00:21:20.128
Feathers are fully dropped, and again, checking their body temperature, they'll tell you when it's time, right?
00:21:20.159 --> 00:21:28.749
If you're looking at your birds every day you'll tell, you'll, feathers are gone and you start seeing the follicles swell with the new feathers.
00:21:29.148 --> 00:21:35.949
It's time to get them back on, a higher protein feed, a higher quality, a performance feed is what I'm calling it.
00:21:36.749 --> 00:21:52.213
Each breed is going to be a little bit different and if they've never been molted, John, that initial, the first time through, you could be three weeks, you could even be four weeks trying to get the fat off of them and getting them to mold out, right?
00:21:52.523 --> 00:22:04.394
Now, if you can make this an annual process, it'll be a lot easier down the road, but If you've got five, six year old hens that have never been molted, it could be a struggle.
00:22:04.493 --> 00:22:06.203
I'm not telling you it's going to be easy.
00:22:07.003 --> 00:22:12.124
And Stacy wants to know, how will this managed molt process impact egg production?
00:22:12.834 --> 00:22:41.913
If it's done correctly, you should in, in the, More of a commercial, more of a commercial type setting if the bird, we should be able to get 80 percent of the production after the molt that it had in the previous lay cycle, so if the bird averaged 80%, in its first lay cycle as a pullet, We should be able to get 64 to 70 percent on the second lay cycle.
00:22:42.364 --> 00:22:47.183
We assume roughly 10 percent drop in production after each molt cycle.
00:22:47.983 --> 00:22:50.594
Now, this is not true of every bird, every breed.
00:22:51.074 --> 00:22:52.483
That's an estimation.
00:22:52.814 --> 00:22:57.763
But we should be able to still get, really good viable eggs after the molt.
00:22:58.104 --> 00:22:58.993
They should be better.
00:22:59.403 --> 00:23:08.163
And you should, if you can shrink the ovaries back down and get them in good condition, so we get good egg follicles, we should be able to do really well.
00:23:08.963 --> 00:23:13.334
And finally, SG says, thank you for the golden girl support.
00:23:13.443 --> 00:23:16.054
And I assume she's talking about the Buff Orpingtons.
00:23:16.564 --> 00:23:17.074
Yeah.
00:23:17.874 --> 00:23:21.713
All right, either that or the old hens that we're talking about how to recycle.
00:23:21.794 --> 00:23:28.223
So yeah, because the golden girls on TV, the TV show was what three older women.
00:23:29.023 --> 00:23:35.864
I don't, I never really watched it, but I'm assuming Buff Arpington as well.
00:23:36.423 --> 00:23:38.923
I think that gets us down to the tail end of the show.
00:23:39.124 --> 00:23:41.644
And I just want to thank everybody for joining us tonight.
00:23:41.644 --> 00:23:45.173
We've had a great show and we've got some really good comments and questions.
00:23:45.818 --> 00:23:47.548
And advice on where to get stuff.
00:23:47.709 --> 00:23:49.048
We really appreciate that.
00:23:49.848 --> 00:23:53.858
Remember, we'll be back in two weeks with another Poultry Keepers 360 live.
00:23:54.499 --> 00:23:58.308
I would encourage you to listen to Poultry Keepers podcast.
00:23:58.429 --> 00:24:00.108
Comes out every Tuesday and.
00:24:00.608 --> 00:24:05.778
Kerry has a podcast, Poultry Nerds podcast, and that comes out Thursdays, is that right?
00:24:06.479 --> 00:24:07.078
Yes, sir.
00:24:07.409 --> 00:24:07.769
Okay.
00:24:08.328 --> 00:24:11.598
We got you covered on poultry information between the three of us here.
00:24:12.398 --> 00:24:16.798
So until next time, folks, thank you for joining us.
00:24:16.878 --> 00:24:23.679
And we hope that you're going to have a good time, and we will see you soon.
00:24:24.618 --> 00:24:27.848
This brings us to the close of another Poultry Keepers podcast.
00:24:27.888 --> 00:24:29.769
We're very happy you chose to join us.
00:24:29.878 --> 00:24:34.608
Until next time, we'd appreciate it if you would drop us a note, letting us know your thoughts about our podcast.
00:24:34.648 --> 00:24:37.459
Please share our podcast with your friends that keep poultry.
00:24:37.509 --> 00:24:41.479
We hope you'll join us again when we'll be talking poultry from feathers to function.