Aug. 12, 2024

Jessica Watson Talks About Shamos-Part 1

Show Notes
Transcript

This episode of the Poultry Keepers Podcast is a replay of a previously rec0orded PK360 Live, Rip Stalvey, and Jeff Mattocks along with guest Jessica Watson, delve into the fascinating world of Shamos, a magnificent breed of poultry.

Jessica shares insights on the breed’s origins, traits, and her personal journey with Shamos. They discuss the bird's unique physical features, their original purpose, and their suitability as pets. The episode also covers topics like breeding, housing requirements, feather health, and the challenges of showing these birds.

Jessica recounts her experiences, offering valuable advice for current and prospective Shamo owners.

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WEBVTT

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Hi! Welcome to the Poultry Keepers Podcast.

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I'm Rip Stalvey, and together with Mandelyn Royal and John Gunterman, we're your co hosts for this show, and it's our mission to help you have a happy, healthy, and productive flock.

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Good evening, everyone, and thank you for joining us here on Poultry Keepers 360 Live.

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We have Jeff here.

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I'm here.

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Kerry's off celebrating tonight's, or today's, his birthday, and we have a special guest.

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Jessica Watson is here, and she's going to be talking to us about her shamos, and these are magnificent birds.

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Coming up in just a few seconds.

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We're going to dive into it.

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Hang on.

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I hope you enjoyed that little seven second musical

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interlude.

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That was nice.

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That was nice.

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I look forward to it on the podcast too.

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It gives a little burst of joy.

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I know what's coming.

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Chicken talk.

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Jessica, first question, and I get asked this a good bit.

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Is it shammo?

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Oh man, when I was at the national, I didn't even know there were so many ways people could say this.

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It's a very simple word, but as far as I understand, it is shammo.

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I told them right.

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Yep.

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And then I found out that people say Malay and Malay.

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I was like, Oh man, you can just pronounce real simple, short words, all kinds of ways.

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Absolutely.

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Absolutely.

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I say shammo.

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You guys ready to get started?

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We're gonna have fun tonight, by the way.

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We're gonna have fun.

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Let's start.

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We've got some slides here, but let's talk about where shammos are from.

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Where shammos are from.

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This is interesting.

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This is not knowledge that is my own research, but other people have put in the time.

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To figure this out.

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And Japan specifically, they did a gene mapping project and found two main populations of shamos that exist in Japan and originally came there through these different trade routes from Thailand.

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And the shamos that came there from Thailand didn't look like our modern shamos.

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But the Japanese really expert level breeders of all of their livestock and selected for this real upright bird.

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And then you have the shamo we see today, which has been around for centuries.

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Which is pretty cool.

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They are indeed.

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And until you have seen one in person, folks, you really can't appreciate.

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They are just magnificent, impressive.

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I don't have enough adjectives to really describe them all.

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They are very impressive.

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And, when I here, I'm just, I'm going to move on and let you know how I got into this breed.

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Go for it.

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Go for it.

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It's a good lead in because I was interested in the breed and then went to seek it out and acquired what I thought was my first shammo's.

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Knowing very little and I thought what I had was magnificent.

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And then as I dove further into researching this bird, I fairly quickly realized that's not what I had at all.

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And that shammels were actually much, much bigger bird, much more magnificent bird than what I had, which was probably something, some a seal.

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Mixed long leg, upright.

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I thought, yep, this is it.

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I've really done something.

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I found the shamo.

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I had not.

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Jessica, you were talking about how large they are.

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Yeah.

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It's one of those few birds that a person could kneel down and almost be looking eye to eye with the bird.

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Oh, for sure.

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Yes.

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And I'm not very tall.

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I'm 5'4 and because they are.

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What's the word?

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They're excitable birds.

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You have to be cautious around them.

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So when I handle them, I do have to be careful because if I carry this 10 pound, 13 pound bird on my hip, he's at eye level with me, which is not a great place for them to be, for any bird to be, is right at eye level.

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Yeah, once I really realized, Oh.

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And then I was like, wow, I'm going to level up another 50 percent and this is an even bigger bird.

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But I'm almost glad that was my introduction because, I had the time to mentally prepare that they only get bigger from there.

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They really

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do.

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Yeah.

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It's so what'd you do with your original A cells?

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So yeah, the original birds I I decided to track down a legitimate shamo breeder.

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And he's a couple of generations into Oriental game fowl.

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So he was able to look at the pictures I sent him of my birds in a very kind way, tell me why they were not shamos at all.

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And then, show me comparisons of his birds.

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And.

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I kept these birds for a while just as pets because they're really interesting and then just pass them along.

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Some people just collect birds to collect birds, and so I passed them along to somebody who had the space and energy to keep them, and then got my first shamo hatching eggs, was actually how I started.

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I would not have thought that.

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I know, and it's just really difficult to get a hold of these birds, and when you want something, and you want it now, you want it now.

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Sometimes that's the way you have to go.

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And I knew that I was getting them from a reliable breeder who'd been working with this breed for a long time.

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But admittedly, I am still, you still have to pull out a lot of defects when you start with hatching eggs.

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It's a longer journey.

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Oh, sure it is.

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What are some of the traits of shammoes, height, we've talked about a little bit, weight, you've alluded to, but

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yes so that high station, which the high station when you look at a bird, a high station is going to be the legs are almost directly under The head and neck of that bird.

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They're towards the front of the body.

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And then in game foul, you can have all three.

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You can have high, medium or low, and a medium is going to be the legs more balanced in the middle of the body.

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And then low is going to be the legs a little behind and a lot of body out front.

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So that's the basic look, but then in the details, the they should have really the slope from their head all the way down through the end of their tail.

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It should look like a nice, even ski slope kind of line.

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The The tail angle should be low and anything above horizontal is considered a defect and like a disqualification if you're going to show.

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Yeah.

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So that's my number one.

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Sue Dobson had a question about what are they mainly used for?

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Decorative meat or guard dogs?

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Guard dogs.

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They are not I find that my American game are actually more assertive around the yard as far as chasing things off and stuff like that.

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They're definitely a beautiful decorative bird, except for having them in your yard.

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Is quite complicated.

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We do utilize our culls for meat that's new this year.

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I've not done that before, but I've come to the point where I don't feel comfortable letting Birds with defects go to pass on their traits that I find unacceptable.

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So that's a new level for me.

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How do they taste though?

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Have you figured out how to prepare them?

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Yeah.

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So it's a lean, obviously a really lean bird, but even in the standard they do mention their meat qualities, their body of the bird.

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Should be meaty.

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They're muscular bird.

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But in like Asian cuisine and stuff, they're often cooked as a whole body bird in broth, and then the meat is picked off and then put into whatever this large soup dish is.

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So by design, that works out really well because they're such a low fat bird.

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You wouldn't want to roast them to death.

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We've got some slides here and I guess we just been sitting here talking and having a good time, but why don't we jump into the slides and

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see

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what you sent us, just some good stuff.

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Ah, some colors.

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This is interesting too.

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These are not my birds, but it's interesting to note because it's not something that the standard mentions, even though black breasted red, this pullet hen here on the right is considered black breasted red but in the standard, the art makes it look like the bird should be, like A black breasted red you'd see in an Old English game, but that actually is not true to the breed.

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So all of the Oriental game are, their colors are built on Wheaton.

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So the black breasted red in a shamo is actually a cinnamon Wheaton color, or like a smutty kind of Wheaton color.

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And then this other stag is dark.

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And the dark variety in Shammo is the same as in the Cornish.

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And, that's, I'm very interested in working with the dark variety.

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And, as far as I can tell, they are Perhaps functionally extinct in this country.

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I see images of them at exhibitions in Europe and in Germany, but I can't find anybody who keeps dark shamos.

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I have seen a lot of oriental games in Germany.

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I haven't been there, but just the photos I've seen, I know they tend to like those.

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Yes.

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And there's they say that the European style of shamo differs from the traditional Japanese style of shamo, which is probably true and probably the American variety does too, but we all have our own standards.

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So that's,

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Each country seems to like to put their own little twist on a breed.

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Exactly.

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And then, of course, here, there's a, just a cuckoo variety that's, I don't believe, can be built on wheat.

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And I could be wrong.

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Color genetics are not my thing.

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I am sure that color was brought in and then they just bred back and brought them back to the right type.

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But white is an accepted variety.

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Also, never seen anybody exhibit a white shammo at a show.

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Never seen anybody exhibit a black shammo at a show.

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I've never really seen much but Wheaton out there.

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That's all I have

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ever encountered.

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Yep.

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Some of them, the females would be lighter, some of them would be darker.

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But we've got a question here from Susan Hughes wants to know, do they have the longer necks to help them reach their long bodies?

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If not, then why the long necks?

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Their original purpose, by design was for fighting, for cockfighting.

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And, proportionately, the neck and the body and the legs are all basically in thirds, which if you look at these pictures, you can see that they are even in that way.

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And they're heavy body fighting.

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birds.

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So there don't get airborne, say an American game foul type of, or old English game would do.

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So they actually use their necks in combat.

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And that was what the original purpose of that long neck is for.

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So they have this high body, big neck, and they can see over their opponents.

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Now it's just for unusual looks and they can reach every part of their body for convenience.

00:12:09.030 --> 00:12:10.451
Okay, let's see.

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Rebecca, or Jessica, have you kept one, what's your oldest male?

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What do they peak out as far as weight?

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In the standard, what would be the high end expectation?

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My oldest

00:12:21.410 --> 00:12:25.311
male is four, four years old and he's 13 pounds.

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That's probably

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where he'll stop.

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He's fully matured.

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Okay.

00:12:30.860 --> 00:12:31.171
Yep.

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The standard And it's, I think the same, I know it's the same in Japan, I'm not sure how it is in Europe, but the standard will say a weight, but it's that and up, like that's supposed to be the minimum weight.

00:12:44.390 --> 00:12:48.791
So I think our standard says 11 pounds, but that's considered like the minimum.

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So the one that you won with was a cockerel, when you came to Ohio Nationals last year?

00:12:55.010 --> 00:12:56.750
So is that a one year old or,

00:12:57.000 --> 00:12:59.171
no, he was only seven months old.

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He changed immensely.

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That was young, but the, I had a little bit, but the problem with these birds is they're very difficult to keep in condition after that point.

00:13:11.931 --> 00:13:22.510
If you're, unless maybe you're just not going to breed the bird and your only goal is to keep the bird in condition, these hard feathered birds are really difficult to maintain.

00:13:22.951 --> 00:13:23.301
Oh, yeah.

00:13:23.301 --> 00:13:23.556
Yeah.

00:13:24.355 --> 00:13:28.096
It's almost like you just have to have a new season of birds if you want to show them.

00:13:28.885 --> 00:13:33.936
Yeah, but I mean your cockerel is seven months old, he had to weigh close to eight pounds, right?

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He was big boy.

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Yeah, he was,

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that's a big bird.

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Yeah, that's you're talking seven months old and he was.

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Oh, yeah,

00:13:41.515 --> 00:13:42.046
so here's,

00:13:42.846 --> 00:13:43.155
this is

00:13:43.196 --> 00:13:51.846
an example of the beginnings of what happens, and this is a mystery to me, something I'm really interested in decoding.

00:13:52.341 --> 00:14:04.041
The feather destruction that seems to happen with shams and I hear from other breeders they have this problem too, down the neck especially and then where you see in this picture.

00:14:04.071 --> 00:14:05.221
And it gets bad.

00:14:05.250 --> 00:14:06.380
It gets really bad.

00:14:06.681 --> 00:14:08.091
And I've even bought a camera.

00:14:08.360 --> 00:14:16.441
I have yet to see one of their pen mates, a female bird, doing this to them, and I've yet to see them doing it to themselves.

00:14:16.961 --> 00:14:18.441
So it truly is a mystery.

00:14:18.860 --> 00:14:22.821
I have seen that in other breeds too dark Cornish will do that.

00:14:23.321 --> 00:14:25.860
Large fowl, modern games will do that.

00:14:26.260 --> 00:14:29.910
Not to the extent that Shama does, but I have seen it before, yeah.

00:14:30.431 --> 00:14:31.630
And what's the reasoning?

00:14:32.140 --> 00:14:36.051
Are they doing it to themselves or is it another bird doing it?

00:14:36.850 --> 00:14:42.711
No, I've seen it in Cornish males who were cooped by themselves for a long time.

00:14:43.510 --> 00:14:49.530
So this bird had it the worst because he had swelling and just, the follicles, everything just looked awful on this bird.

00:14:49.770 --> 00:14:59.155
And then when he molted back out, You would think if he was doing it to himself or the females were doing it, it would, the cycle would repeat immediately, but that's not the case.

00:14:59.186 --> 00:15:00.365
Now he's in excellent feather.

00:15:01.035 --> 00:15:03.235
Like me going bald, I think, to some extent.

00:15:04.035 --> 00:15:04.905
So it's interesting.

00:15:04.905 --> 00:15:05.725
It's one of those things.

00:15:05.735 --> 00:15:09.245
It's can I select a way from this, but I don't know yet.

00:15:10.005 --> 00:15:12.066
So is it a feather deficiency?

00:15:12.556 --> 00:15:21.308
Do you feel that it's the feather weakness or some sort of a deficiency nutritionally because you use the term hard feathered.

00:15:21.308 --> 00:15:22.351
I'm just wondering.

00:15:22.902 --> 00:15:26.121
You and I have been working together to try and dial this in, right?

00:15:26.182 --> 00:15:28.011
And they've come a long way.

00:15:28.631 --> 00:15:32.451
I'm not going to, I am not a genius at Shamo nutrition.

00:15:32.542 --> 00:15:35.802
I'm doing the best I can based on the information I can find.

00:15:36.392 --> 00:15:46.841
So I'm just wondering, we've been talking about in previous shows using the cysteine amino acid, which goes the next step further.

00:15:46.842 --> 00:15:46.856
Sure.

00:15:47.356 --> 00:15:54.336
Because when they analyze a feather cysteine is the highest amino acid found in feathers, right?

00:15:54.527 --> 00:16:05.057
So I'm just wondering if that's something that you and I need to talk about, outside the show, but I'm wondering if that's the next level to try and correct this.

00:16:05.187 --> 00:16:06.976
I'm all for, I'm all for it.

00:16:07.047 --> 00:16:07.636
Trying.

00:16:07.767 --> 00:16:07.996
Okay.

00:16:08.047 --> 00:16:08.606
I don't know.

00:16:08.667 --> 00:16:09.307
And seeing if

00:16:09.307 --> 00:16:09.956
there's a change.

00:16:10.756 --> 00:16:11.726
I'm learning.

00:16:11.736 --> 00:16:13.407
And so I don't know.

00:16:14.206 --> 00:16:18.067
Shaggy says he's totally, he says kneading out, I think he means nerding out.

00:16:18.537 --> 00:16:19.466
That this is awesome.

00:16:19.537 --> 00:16:20.187
And I agree, Shae.

00:16:20.986 --> 00:16:22.726
Whether you're needing or nerding, I agree with you.

00:16:23.527 --> 00:16:27.256
Yeah, I'm glad because I don't know many people who can nerd out on Shammo.

00:16:27.256 --> 00:16:29.976
So if we can all meet in one place, one time, this is great.

00:16:30.777 --> 00:16:34.517
I'm going to be in Ohio again this fall, make sure you stop by and spend some time.

00:16:34.687 --> 00:16:34.986
Yep.

00:16:35.307 --> 00:16:36.886
I won't be so starstruck this time.

00:16:36.897 --> 00:16:38.817
Now we have a little bit of rapport.

00:16:39.616 --> 00:16:43.346
I put my pants on one leg at a time, just like everybody else.

00:16:44.147 --> 00:16:45.876
And he's trying to talk me into going too.

00:16:45.876 --> 00:16:46.866
So I may, I don't know.

00:16:47.667 --> 00:16:49.907
Jessica, you need to help us convince Rip.

00:16:49.966 --> 00:16:52.246
He needs to be there at the table with me and Gary.

00:16:52.336 --> 00:16:53.307
I want to be there.

00:16:53.307 --> 00:16:55.226
It's will my back let me be there.

00:16:55.226 --> 00:16:57.116
That's a 64,

00:16:57.157 --> 00:17:01.956
I come from the badger state, so I know how to badger somebody and get my, get it done.

00:17:02.756 --> 00:17:04.886
I'm outnumbered before I even get started.

00:17:05.146 --> 00:17:06.086
Thank you so much, Jeff.

00:17:06.886 --> 00:17:08.267
What's in this picture, Jessica?

00:17:08.267 --> 00:17:08.896
Let's get off this.

00:17:08.896 --> 00:17:09.436
Oh, okay.

00:17:09.436 --> 00:17:10.176
Let's get on with it.

00:17:10.882 --> 00:17:15.862
This is a picture of one of my pens, and it leads into just a couple different things.

00:17:16.281 --> 00:17:19.862
One is I learned to not overthink the nest box.

00:17:19.872 --> 00:17:24.392
You can overthink things with these birds because of their unique size.

00:17:24.811 --> 00:17:32.481
When they're kept in trios, females are ruthless, so you really don't want to create too many areas a bird can get trapped.

00:17:32.912 --> 00:17:34.041
So I use feed bags.

00:17:34.432 --> 00:17:48.221
Like this, under this platform, and if they have to, they can run straight out of the feed bags like a dog door, like there's not a three sided trapped area in there that a bird can get stuck in, they really can be harsh with each other.

00:17:48.521 --> 00:17:55.622
And then I utilize a platform instead of a perch because of our winters, and they don't have feathers.

00:17:55.807 --> 00:17:58.396
It's on their whole front is bare.

00:17:58.557 --> 00:18:04.426
So they can get down into shavings or chopped straw or something.

00:18:04.446 --> 00:18:10.967
I use a radiant heater over the top when it gets really subzero out and I have had no issues.

00:18:10.997 --> 00:18:12.237
Nothing with frostbite.

00:18:12.237 --> 00:18:14.426
I have, they've just been fine like this.

00:18:15.227 --> 00:18:15.626
That's cool.

00:18:15.777 --> 00:18:17.967
Japan where they come from gets cold as well.

00:18:18.446 --> 00:18:24.707
So you would think, yeah, you would think depending on, there's a large area of Japan that.

00:18:24.991 --> 00:18:30.541
That experience is temperatures, probably not Wisconsin cold, right?

00:18:30.542 --> 00:18:33.542
They have snow and they have colder weather and things like that.

00:18:33.673 --> 00:18:33.923
So

00:18:34.722 --> 00:18:38.182
Monica says, wow, bigger than my white Chinese geese.

00:18:38.192 --> 00:18:39.823
And I thought the geese were big.

00:18:40.623 --> 00:18:45.002
I think geese are so intriguing to me and that would be such an interesting bird.

00:18:45.002 --> 00:18:48.782
But then I picture a shamo meeting a goose and don't know if I want to.

00:18:49.583 --> 00:18:50.468
Do that.

00:18:50.468 --> 00:18:52.143
That could not be a fun thing.

00:18:52.522 --> 00:18:53.982
That could not be a fun thing.

00:18:54.303 --> 00:18:56.222
An eye level friend or enemy.

00:18:57.022 --> 00:18:58.363
So yeah, this is a setup.

00:18:58.383 --> 00:18:59.492
It's pretty simple.

00:18:59.702 --> 00:19:02.512
I think that the birds definitely need to be able to pop their wings.

00:19:02.522 --> 00:19:04.432
They need to be able to stand in their own pen.

00:19:04.492 --> 00:19:05.583
They love to do that.

00:19:05.623 --> 00:19:07.502
They are show off birds.

00:19:07.813 --> 00:19:13.617
And when I put them in smaller pens or drop pens that are lower, they don't do that.

00:19:13.627 --> 00:19:18.367
They don't flap, they don't pop their wings, don't utilize their muscles like they should.

00:19:18.367 --> 00:19:21.178
So I like to keep the platform off the ground.

00:19:21.178 --> 00:19:24.407
So they're constantly using their legs to get up and down.

00:19:24.488 --> 00:19:33.317
I don't think everyone does this, but in my experience, it's pretty important that they use all of this muscular body that God gave them.

00:19:33.317 --> 00:19:39.647
If you're just going to keep them penned in something small, cause you like to look at them, it's really not fair to the bird.

00:19:40.448 --> 00:19:44.778
Before you move on, what's the height of that pen, Rip you would know,

00:19:45.577 --> 00:19:45.958
what's the inside

00:19:46.038 --> 00:19:51.837
height of those large pens, just so people get a he's at the, this is the cockerel, and he's

00:19:51.847 --> 00:19:53.417
around 30, 32 inches,

00:19:53.877 --> 00:20:10.708
he's not at the top, so if you look at this picture on the right, I have four inch blocks under this pen, and then he's at the top these pens do not fit the birds, and if you want to exhibit the birds, they have to be able to stand appropriately and pose, or else, what's the point?

00:20:10.978 --> 00:20:12.157
I bring these blocks.

00:20:12.958 --> 00:20:13.488
with me.

00:20:14.288 --> 00:20:20.097
And that in itself, because the cage isn't quite as stable.

00:20:20.508 --> 00:20:24.657
I take zip ties and make sure it's attached to the cage next to it.

00:20:24.667 --> 00:20:27.387
So he doesn't accidentally shove it off the table.

00:20:27.468 --> 00:20:29.317
They need turkey cages, truly.

00:20:29.667 --> 00:20:30.468
They really do.

00:20:31.268 --> 00:20:31.288
Or

00:20:31.367 --> 00:20:33.407
even then is it tall enough, right?

00:20:33.518 --> 00:20:33.958
Not really.

00:20:34.038 --> 00:20:39.228
Because of how they stand, they actually stand taller than most turkeys.

00:20:40.002 --> 00:20:40.202
Yeah.

00:20:40.542 --> 00:20:45.682
A turkey doesn't always have its head erect standing in this position, so

00:20:46.093 --> 00:20:47.182
These birds have a So you're talking

00:20:47.982 --> 00:20:48.192
Yeah.

00:20:48.212 --> 00:20:48.702
Go ahead, Joe.

00:20:48.742 --> 00:20:49.323
Thirty Sorry.

00:20:49.353 --> 00:20:51.292
You need 36 inches, is what you're

00:20:51.742 --> 00:20:51.952
Yep.

00:20:51.992 --> 00:20:53.962
Rip's saying it's a 32 inch pen.

00:20:54.502 --> 00:20:59.573
You put a four inch block in there, and his head is still just about touching.

00:20:59.573 --> 00:21:01.022
And this is the cutthroat, right?

00:21:01.478 --> 00:21:02.508
And this is the cockerel.

00:21:02.548 --> 00:21:14.248
And if you don't spend any time with the bird in a smaller cage like this, you're going to put them in something small and they're going to crouch constantly because they're not used to having their comb almost rubbing the top.

00:21:14.248 --> 00:21:15.897
So that's an important part too.

00:21:16.208 --> 00:21:18.538
Getting them in and out of this door is almost a joke.

00:21:18.617 --> 00:21:20.557
I look both ways and make sure no one's watching.

00:21:20.597 --> 00:21:23.077
This is going to be a scene every time it's a scene.

00:21:23.877 --> 00:21:24.498
You just can't.

00:21:24.498 --> 00:21:24.857
I can only

00:21:24.867 --> 00:21:25.367
imagine.

00:21:25.653 --> 00:21:25.913
Yeah,

00:21:26.113 --> 00:21:27.762
you can't practice that enough.

00:21:28.423 --> 00:21:32.113
These birds have such a unique, tall, upright stance.

00:21:32.913 --> 00:21:37.913
If you're not careful, you can really cause that crouch and it just throws off the whole body type to them.

00:21:37.942 --> 00:21:39.383
Oh yeah, the whole vibe is there.

00:21:40.182 --> 00:21:41.673
They really have to be proud.

00:21:41.932 --> 00:21:42.863
That's who they are.

00:21:43.512 --> 00:21:45.467
How tall is your four year old male?

00:21:46.267 --> 00:21:47.267
33 inches.

00:21:48.067 --> 00:21:48.457
Really?

00:21:49.196 --> 00:21:49.626
Yes.

00:21:50.067 --> 00:21:50.747
He's huge.

00:21:51.547 --> 00:21:52.477
He's really huge.

00:21:53.037 --> 00:21:53.166
You

00:21:53.166 --> 00:21:57.477
just, you think about a yardstick and he's basically a yardstick tall.

00:21:58.007 --> 00:21:59.676
He's basically a yardstick tall.

00:21:59.676 --> 00:22:03.527
And this is him on the right here at five months old.

00:22:04.326 --> 00:22:04.467
Wow.

00:22:04.576 --> 00:22:05.596
This is that same bird.

00:22:05.967 --> 00:22:18.856
And Then, this is just a contrast, these two, these are two different birds I preferred the bird on the left, greatly, for a multitude of reasons.

00:22:19.136 --> 00:22:23.826
And he was aggressive towards people, which we call being a man fighter.

00:22:23.896 --> 00:22:25.426
And it was not a joke.

00:22:25.537 --> 00:22:28.906
It was, you open the door to his pen and he was on you.

00:22:29.346 --> 00:22:32.366
Or if you thought I have my little rake and he'll stay back.

00:22:32.416 --> 00:22:34.936
As soon as you would turn your back, he would be on you.

00:22:35.027 --> 00:22:35.287
And.

00:22:35.896 --> 00:22:47.507
I think that it's important that people recognize that if you're interested in getting into the breed, it's not a breed that you can be careless with children around.

00:22:47.547 --> 00:22:58.207
They're very big, they're very powerful, and as a young cockerel is coming into sexual maturity it doesn't matter how sweet they were as chicks, they're still a big, capable bird.

00:22:58.297 --> 00:23:00.376
So you have to, plan for that.

00:23:01.176 --> 00:23:11.596
Realizing that the genetics were actually honed in on a hundred generations ago or whatever, these birds were bred for fighting, right?

00:23:11.916 --> 00:23:16.156
So they're going to have an aggression level and that's part of the breed.

00:23:16.166 --> 00:23:21.737
So don't get these assuming that they're docile and you're going to hold them and, you can.

00:23:22.537 --> 00:23:25.217
They're just, yes, they're still the game bird.

00:23:26.007 --> 00:23:30.646
This photo on the left, people talk about, oh, he looks like he's smiling.

00:23:30.676 --> 00:23:32.207
Oh, he's your best friend.

00:23:32.467 --> 00:23:36.557
This bird gave me a black eye one day, and it was not a joke.

00:23:36.987 --> 00:23:42.126
And I made a choice, watching that his behavior was not right.

00:23:42.136 --> 00:23:46.886
He was not in his pen at dusk, and he was acting strange.

00:23:46.906 --> 00:23:47.696
I have no idea.

00:23:47.717 --> 00:23:48.382
Maybe a hawk eye.

00:23:48.771 --> 00:23:53.771
I have no idea what happened, but I chose to go in there with him acting that way.

00:23:53.771 --> 00:24:01.362
And instead of just moving him into his pen, I chose to pick him up and he is at eye height and he reacted.

00:24:01.761 --> 00:24:02.751
And he's a nice bird.

00:24:02.761 --> 00:24:14.412
He's never done anything aggressive, but it is just the fact that you're dealing with a very large animal who is, dialed in to be precise when they strike or do anything like that.

00:24:14.412 --> 00:24:16.142
They're, it's not I don't even know.

00:24:16.162 --> 00:24:21.692
I feel like most roosters are a little intimidating when they want to attack, we're not talking a bantam rooster here.

00:24:22.192 --> 00:24:23.801
This goes to a new level, right?

00:24:23.882 --> 00:24:27.981
It's, and there's less fat and they're way more muscular, right?

00:24:28.102 --> 00:24:36.882
And their muscles were, their body conformation, again, was selected and bred for a purpose, right?

00:24:37.682 --> 00:24:40.051
For a very long time, they're just.

00:24:40.852 --> 00:24:42.701
Yeah, very muscular, very athletic.

00:24:42.702 --> 00:24:43.122
It's what makes them

00:24:43.301 --> 00:24:44.122
really cool.

00:24:44.152 --> 00:24:48.942
And so now I, I take extra precautions to, I, I pay attention to his behavior.

00:24:48.942 --> 00:24:55.602
I don't ignore his behavior and I don't hold him at eye level because it's just an accident waiting to happen.

00:24:56.241 --> 00:25:05.961
So these are two chicks again, because they're so slow to mature and our shows up here don't start until September I have to hatch really early.

00:25:05.961 --> 00:25:07.192
Swipers in the house.

00:25:07.791 --> 00:25:19.362
Which is another thing that we're hoping if we get this micro grant, or if we don't, we have a long term plan to build out a room for hatching.

00:25:19.471 --> 00:25:24.541
Mandelyn Royal, she talks about her hatching room and I'm just very envious of that.

00:25:24.541 --> 00:25:25.652
Yeah, it's nice.

00:25:26.071 --> 00:25:28.652
And I want to point out something here about these chicks.

00:25:28.961 --> 00:25:35.571
And I don't know, there's probably some viewers that have not had any experience with a Wheaton color pattern.

00:25:36.372 --> 00:25:44.451
And it can really throw you off when they hatch because the chicks are yellow, solid yellow, no marks, no stripes, no nothing, just a yellow chick.

00:25:45.251 --> 00:25:53.412